Customs 47 Cadillac Build Thread - Not your Daddy's Caddy

1 1/2" is correct, and you are correct on the holes. The holes for the hood hinge are slotted so that you can adjust the height of the fender at the cowl, so the 1 1/2" is not critical, just should be close. You can slot the holes as much as needed for adjustment.

Back glass is curved, so may be pricey to get a custom piece made. Buicks are out there, 1941/1946/1947 B body 4 door should all work, not sure on the 2dr. Hard to be sure, even though the buick and cad used the same B body shell the frames, body mounts, and rear suspension were completely different. Looked to be the same body but were very different underneath.

 

I haven't posted an update in awhile... been working just not much progress to show for it.

1. Still working on getting that lower A-arm bolt out of the front end. Made some brackets to fit around the cross member to fit a puller on, to press it out. Also have a air hammer, sliding hammer and a torch. Waiting on either my father or buddy to come over to assist me. This really took the wind out of my sail as far as get progress done on the front suspension. In hind sight, I should of just left them alone, the lower bushings were not in that bad of shape.

2. Welded some more on the driver's side front suspension. The guy I had install the Jag suspensions did not finish all of the welds on the front, due to time deadline. So I had a few of those to finish up. Just need to grind them down, touch up any missed spots.

3. Here is the upper shock mounts.

Planning to add some more metal between the bars and the back of the mounts after I get the front reassembled and check for the shock clearance. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I don't know the force the top of the shock will produce and I don't want the mount to give. On the other hand, I've seen 32 fords with a lot less of a shock mount just bolted to the frame, so maybe it's overkill?

4. Purchased all of the bushings, ball joints, bearings, front rotors, bake pads, and caliper rebuild kits for the front and back Jag suspensions. A lot of bearings and seals for that IRS... Still need new rear rotors and coil overs. I'll start by rebuilding the upper A-arms next week.

5. Dug through the many parts boxes and found the original brake pedal assembly. Finally figured out how it mounted inside the frame. I think I have an idea on how I am going to rework the linkage and mount the master cylinder and booster underneath between the frame rails. Hope to get that ordered within the week.

6. Sandblasting.... Sandblasting.... Sandblasting! Been working on the floors of the body and inside compartment. Getting really tried of sandblasting, and still a lot to do...


Also, with a new garage... you need new tools! I have been wanting to get some equipement for doing metal work for a long time, so I've gotten started by purchasing Grizzly Industry 48˝, 16 Gauge, box and pan brake. I also took a weight lifting bench press rack that was given to me and fabricated a rack to store my sheet metal, tubing, and steel lines. I had plans to purchase a bead roller as well as some other equipement, but purchased a new mower instead. Wasn't a need, but it was one of those family deals you couldn't pass up. Unfortunately, it came out of my hot rod funds...

Plan is to have enough sandblasted to shoot more primer on Saturday of Memorial weekend. Hopefully have the master cyl installed and the front suspension ready to assembly for the last mock up stage.

Thanks to everyone who has followed, commented and/or contributed with info.

Jason

 

4. Purchased all of the bushings, ball joints, bearings, front rotors, bake pads, and caliper rebuild kits for the front and back Jag suspensions. A lot of bearings and seals for that IRS... Still need new rear rotors and coil overs. I'll start by rebuilding the upper A-arms next week.




Any chance you could pm me the info on where you got all the rebuild parts? Prices and if it has to be ordered individually or if they come in rebuild kits???

 

Regarding the back glass, wouldn't Pontiac and/or Chevy be the same? I know there are different fastback body styles for each, just like the Series 61 and 62 Cadillac's for '47, but I would think the taller of the two Pontiac series should work, no? My dad has both, so I can definitely get some measurements if needed this weekend. He has a Series 61 (just like the topic of this post), and a '47 Pontiac. From what we can tell, both the Caddy and the Pontiac are close to the same from the cowl back.

 

I used Terry's Jaguar Parts in Kalamazoo, MI. You can download their catalog on their website, www.terrysjag.com. Not everything is listed on their website, but what is has pricing. If you have a specific item, give them a call. Great service, parts always come within a few days of ordering. Does not have a all in one rebuild kit that I know of, but they will let you know everything you will need or don't need. Actually told me items that I would not need, instead of just selling me a mass bag of parts. Would have to look at the invoice for individual pricing, all total, I spent a little over $700.

Don't know if they are the necessarily the cheapest dealer, but they were cheaper than the local Jag dealership here in Indy.

 

I think they are the same too, just from what I've seen from Pontiac, Buick, and Chevys at car shows. I've never taken measurements though... Seems the GM B bodies were mostly uniform between the different makes and models.

A good example is "caddyrodder"s build thread, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=768025
Not necessarily the same senario, but he is using a Buick body on his Cadillac.

My rear glass is at my father's house from when it was in storage up there. When I get it I'll PM you and we can compare notes.

The best would be to set my rear glass on top of the others to compare, just haven't had the opportunity.

Thanks

 

Here's pics. of removing lower control arm. Torch out rubber (outside), drill 2" holes on bottom side and heat up and remove.
All my info.and parts supplied by Johns Cars, Dallas, Tx.

 

Thanks, for the pics. Same info I picked up on another Jag forum. Was hoping to avoid cutting up the bottom, but it may just be the way I have to go.

Having a large group of friends over on Memorial weekend to attend the Indy 500. Hoping with their assistance I can get this issue taken can of on that Saturday.

Your front end is looking good, what is it under?

 

46 Dodge Pickup Build-241 Hemi Powered - on this site.
All Jag. IFS&IRS., 700R-3.54 gears.

 

Small updates, like using a chisel on a glacier...

My oldest son lend me a hand in cleaning out the booth and body, prepping it for some more primer. Also, primer some suspension parts, radiator support, front door pods, etc..... As you can see, there is some rot in the floors. Mostly where the floor braces meet up at the rockers.



Finally removed the lower A-arm bolt from the cross member without having to cut the bottom up. Purchased new bolts. Will tackle the other side next.


Spent an evening working with some of the new suspension parts and rebuilt the upper A-arms.


Will work on mocking up the brake system. Have the pedal assembly reinstalled and purchased a booster and master cylinder.



Next, going to sandblast the upper-back half of the body and get it in primer. Then I would like to get the body back on the frame and put in new wheel wells and floor repairs. Then I'll be able to put the body on the rotisserie to finish sandblasting / paint the floors. Also need to get the engine mounts mocked up at that time.

 

sweet

 

Cool build. Should go really nicely with the Jag suspension.

 

Im doing a 48 fastback, just dropped in a 454/400 Haywired,A/C plain jane black chev truck wheels, low gloss black bumpers and grille,Black cherry base coat c/c.. removed all side chrome, shaving off the door handles. Original parts a very spendy..aftermarket is near non existing.

 

really like this build.

you had mentioned the Jag IFS being of minimal cost....what would you think a guy should pay for one on the open market (not eBay)?

Are the hole patterns for the Jag; 5 x 4.75?



If so, anyone know how to modify for 5 x 4.5" ?

Where did you source the booster/dual master?

gatz

 

Gatz

I’m not sure what the Jag suspensions are bringing these days. My father purchased this 80 Jag XJ6 about 18 years ago for one of his future projects that never came about. I think he had under $1500 in the whole car, sold the engine, some parts, and the rest of the car sold at scrap; I have $350 in each of the IFS and IRS. Being that it is 20 years older, I believe a complete car might be found for $500-$800 range. ??? There is also Jag salvage yards to purchase just the suspensions. Plus swap meets…

They’re much cheaper than the mustang II setups, but possibly a harder install. XJ6 – 8 – 12 series are a coil spring front end which work well in fat fender cars. My father’s 32 Ford Panel has a 74 Jag (XK series???), it’s not a coil spring setup but works well on the smaller frame rails. You would have to take measurements of your wheelbase / width to see what model would work best for you. I have always been told to use an 86 or older Jaguar. I know nothing about the newer Jags as to why to avoid them. Width maybe?

I wouldn’t exactly say “with minimal cost”. Jag suspensions can also get expensive. If you just do the install, you can probably just do some maintenance (change out gear lube, re-grease everything, new brake shoes, etc.) and drive it. I decided to do a complete tear down, repaint everything, and install new parts (bearings, seals, ball joints, bushings, bolt shafts, caliper kits, brake shoes, rotors, etc.). I have more money in parts than I have in the original suspensions, and that does not include front shocks or rear coil overs (which I got at a NAPA employee discount)! A basic Mustang II IFS and 9” rear end would have at least cost about 2K, which is about what I’ll have in my Jag setup.

I believe the bolt pattern is 5x4.75, same as some Chevy patterns. Only thing I have seen to watch out for is the center opening of the rim is sometimes not big enough (slightly) for the rear hubs with some after market rims. You have to grind them out just a little.

Dual Booster / Master Cylinder I got from Speedway. A disc/disc brake conversion kit for a full size 50-60’s Chevy with the same bore size as the 80 Jag.

Sorry if that is not much help, maybe someone else will chime in…
Jason

 

I paid $500 for a complete 87' XJ6. Pulled the front and rear suspension for my build. Took some other parts, sold some parts to break even then gave the car to my buddy who owns a tow business. He made $300 selling to a pick-n-pull. So I have a complete front and rear setup for free minus my time but that time was training as I see it. I was able to see exactly how they were installed in the Jag which helped me in my install. I'll have to go through both but all in all it will be the cheapest option I could have went with.

 

Damn, you did real good!! Not sure how much we have in ours, guessing $300 to $350 each. But like you stated even if you have to go through them both, it's still cheaper than most mustang II kits or other options...

Do you know what the differences are in the newer models? I was always told to use 86 or older models. Is there a difference in the width? Or did they change the suspensions?

Don't some of the new IRS models have the brakes out by the wheels instead of inboard?

 

Terry's Jaguar in Kalamazoo? Thought they were in Benton, Illinois.

Anyhow love the build... I had a fastback Caddy but sold it, still want to build one someday, just have too much stuff ahead of me to do.

 

Got Kalamazoo, MI from the bottom of their website...
"Engel Imports 5775 Venture Park Dr. Kalamazoo Mi 49009 (800) 851 9438"

but your right, their catalog says southern Illinois... Brenton, IL. Never checked the package to see where it came from.

Just order last week, asked for a new catalog, said they no longer print one but can download their old catalog from their website. Lucky, I still have their old one I guess.

 

I have the last year of the Series 3 model IFS/IRS. Brakes are inboard on the rear.
The XJ12 I believe ran until 91' before switching to the newer style suspensions with the outboard brakes. Xj6 cutoff is 87'
Series 1,2,3 are all pretty much the same. Believe all are interchangable. Different pinion andgles on some like the Saloon model. That's the model that has the 3* pinion. Then there's one with 6*. Most, like mine, are 0*.
At some point they switched to the newer style ball joints in the front. Better brakes in the front as well. Not sure what years the changes occured off hand.

 

Not sure about the "better" brakes on the later ones?
The series 3 xj brakes are about as good as you would ever want.

 

goood veri nice

 

I like it!

 

I'd love to see more of these old Cads on the road.

 

Depends on what you mean by "on the road." If you stay home and don't go to events, you'll prolly not see any more of them "on the road." I was at GoodGuy's ColoRODo event yesterday and there was a slew of Cadillacs there, including mine and my brothers. They're out there, ya can't see 'em from the porch of your home...!!!

R-

 

Time for my monthly update… As usual not as much done as I had hoped to complete, too much of life’s demands and other priority’s. Oldest son’s baseball league is over (tournament champs by the way), and in less than a month football season will start. Spent some time sandblasting some parts for my father’s 58 Corvette build. And meet a local rodder, Scott (1959apache), and gave him a hand with his truck build, which is coming along nicely!

I don’t have a lot of pictures as the wife took the camera with her on vacation to Florida, which is when I got most of my work done… coincidence I think not! But you are not missing much, mostly welding and grinding.

• Primer the finished sandblasted areas of the body, along with a bunch of suspension parts.

• Got the stuck lower A-arm bolt out on the driver’s side. It was a little more stubborn that the passenger side. Took a lot of heat with the torch and an air hammer before finally sliding out.

• Finish the driver’s side shock mount, some welding of the cross member, and ground down all of the welds and torch cuts on the frame.




• Going to have to rethink the master cylinder... Spent about 3 hours mocking it up and getting it functioning. After setting the front end to about ride height (and I think I guess on the high side), the booster hangs below the frame (about 4 inches). Probably above the scrub line, but I'm not real comfortable with it. So will wait until after the body is on to see if it can raise up some, but after doing measurements I not optimistic. Well make a decision after the chassis/engine is done, might have to resort to having it go on the firewall...

• Removed some unneeded brackets from the frame.


• Removed the rear suspension from the frame. Going to break it down for final paint and rebuild.


• Borrowed my father’s auto rotisserie and got the frame mounted. An exhausting chore by myself, even with the assistance of an engine lift! It's ready for the blast booth, then some primer and paint!




The only thing not completed on the frame is the engine mounts and the steering shafts. Just don’t have the time or manpower to get the body on the frame, mock up the engine and doghouse position, and then tear it completely apart just to make these. I can just as easily repaint those areas on the frame when the time comes.

For this next month I like to get a finished rolling chassis done and ready to put the body on and start repairing rust areas and engine mock up. Maybe a lofty goal with my time restraints, but time will tell…

Thanks for following, Jason

 

Looking good! Is there anyway to jack the body up on some kind of A frame design then jack the frame up to it in order for us to find out where the MC goes? That way you don't have to have 12 people lifting that heavy body all over the place

I am jealous you have a rotisserie. Just let me know when you want me to head over and I will give you a hand.

"coincidence I think not! "

^^ this made me laugh pretty hard. I know the feeling

 

Good work fella!!!

 

For mounts you may be able to use this as a reference, this is the 4L60E (same as 700r4) position in my 47 cad frame, factory trans crossmember location. Comparing the 700r4 length to whatever trans you use you can then offset as needed and then make the engine mounts unless your engine is very different in size than a SB chevy. Also looks like the firewall line is about the same as the front cowl mount position for a firewall reference line.

 

Any thing to update?


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