Thinking of using a 472 or 500 in a new project, Obviously fairly powerful in stock form and plenty of torque, Not that heavy either. I will be rebuilding it and it will get a full balance but what are the best speed parts for them ??? Your opinions are welcomed
Check out these web sites, they offer parts to build performance Caddy big blocks that will make over 1000hp and that's with a stock block and crank, no kidding!! One vendor just built a 1400hp blown big block on a stock block. But for a reasonable amount of money you can build a 500hp and 600ft/lbs engine. I have one in my '29 model A that makes 480hp and 597ft/lb, all torque is there at about 3000rpm and that's more power than you need, because it's nearly impossible to get that kind of power to the pavement in a light car. I can spin both tires at 70 mph. In stock form with just a small cam and a intake/carb/header job they will out perform just about any thing on the street. So have fun with your big block Caddy, I do with mine! http://www.cadillacperformanceparts.com/ http://www.cad500parts.com/ http://www.500cid.com/ http://www.cadillachighperformance.com/
You absolutely can not do better than the 472-500 caddy motor,,, and I dont care what anyone says differently. For starters, being as they were GM's top of the line powerplant, they are constructed with a much higher level of engineering and quality components and materials than [most] other engines. The blocks are extremely high nickel content [more so than the bow-tie GM racing blocks], the cranks are m***ive and practically indestructable, the combustion chambers are high swirl heart shaped design, and they are factory built to move a 6000 lb beast down the road with comperable performance to a SBC powered camaro. Not withstanding their strong points, they do have a few un-desireable qualities, from a hot-rodding point of view. They were designed to make M***IVE torque from just off idle up to about 3500-4000 RPM's,,,,,, and that's about it. As a result, the connecting rods are cast arma-steel [like a pontiac] and the heads lack the ability to flow vast quan***ies of air past the factory's ~4000 rpm redline. Also, the rocker arm ***embly is a push in pin type. Basically, all this means the engine was never designed to be hot-rodded. Also, there is an overall un-availability of quality performance parts on the open market....... But fear not! Parts to make big power in a caddy are available if you know where to look. www.cad500parts.com This is CMD, or Cadillac Motorsports development. A company founded by an old friend of mine, Larry Crudzik. [who has since p***ed away]. He was the originator of caddy performance parts 25 some odd years ago. The company has p***ed to new ownership, and is located in the desert southwest [Arizona I believe]. When the new guy took it over, there were some rumors of poor quality and customer service issues, so I have since dis-***ociated myself with them.... But I have been hearing good things about them the past couple years. www.500cid.com This is the site for MTS, or Maximum Torque Specialties. It's run by a guy named "Al". Back when I was into these motors, Al was considered a "johnny come lately", so I never had any personal dealings with him, but at the same time, I have never heard ANYTHING bad about him or his company. The motors themselves [472-500], as stated, are nearly indestructable. Even with the stock cast rods, they can actually handle almost 1000 HP when force-fed nitrous,,,, so long as you dont overspeed them. Once you start getting into big power territory, replacing the stock rods with "old style" Oldsmobile forged rods is a nessecity. There are no off the shelf forged pistons available, but [when using the 'Olds rods] you can use certian BBC, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Ford 429 pistons with varrying CR's. Heads can be ported to flow reasonably well, and aluminum aftermarket heads with HUGE hp potential are available from both CMD and MTS. Custom rocker setups as well as oversized valves are also available from both companies. Intakes are a weak point in cady performance. Stock GM intakes are all low profile, and actually place the carburetor down below the heads intake ports, nessecating the air/fuel to flow UP. Not performance in any way, but certainly sufficent to make up to 500+ hp. Stockers are available in single plane, and also single plane on some late 70's model emissions engines. Edelbrock makes an aluminum replacement intake in the "performer" series. It's not much of an improvement over the stock piece, but it is good for weight savings and dress-up. After that, custom [high $$$] sheet metal intakes are about all that's available. Interestingly, however, starting in about 1973, Caddy offered optional Fuel Injection. The caddy FI system was the fore-runner to the TPI setup that eventually became standard equipment on the 80's model GM performance small blocks [camaro Z-28 and T/A's]. If you can get your hands on a complete caddy FI setup, you can use aftermarket performance parts designed for the camaro to build something pretty cool............. Maybe not HAMB friendly, but worth pointing out. Spark is supplied by the tried and true GM HEI. Headers can be an option.... Block huggers are the only ones offered ready to run. Or you can buy a set of header flanges, and MODIFY a set of BBC headers to work. The 472-500 uses the BOP bellhousing bolt pattern. Manual flywheels are available....... But you would have one hell of a time finding a manual ****** that would actually survive behind 700 ft/lbs of monster motor....... Probably better to stick with the T-400. I hope some of this helps. Any other ?'s, just ask. 20 years ago, I built one of these beasts, and installed it in a 4000 lb Buick Skylark/GS. It ran a best of 10.27 @ 128 mph with a 3.90 rear gear, and it would pull the front wheels 2 feet off the ground!
One thing Darryl left out is that either MTS or Cad.Co. does offer the Edelbrock 2115 intake or you can get a tunnel ram or for some bucks a blower for the beast. The Edelbrock 2115 according to Dyno tests showed a 12 or 13 hp increase and 15lbs. of torque increase. This intake stands roughly 3 inches taller than stock therefore helping fuel delivery AFAIK My .02
Awesome! Just bought a 472/400 combo that's all original out of a he**** with 76K miles on it. Now I'm stoked to drop that in my '52 Chevy! I'll probably leave it stock, save for a nitrous kit.
So you have to shift at 4K? This is intriguing to me for my shop truck theory I am pipe dreaming about....
thanks guys thats exactly the info i was looking for, To expand slightly i am going to build a 26T sedan and use the 500 i've been offered, I have a 23T at the moment that runs consistant 12.6 quarters from a warm 289 ford on 820 x 15 crossplys and i would be looking to modify the 500 to hit the 11's on the same tyres ideally, didn't want to take any backward steps
The 1970 500cid caddy big block was factory rated at 400hp and 550ft/lbs of torque. But in real life it was more like 370hp and 535ft/lbs. Still enough, especially the torque!
There's a guy that runs a unchopped model T with a 500cid Caddy in it, with slicks his best ET is 9.94sec at about 130mph in the 1/4. Not bad at all. But you need a very strong frame and rear end set up, because the torque will twist the **** out of parts and brake axles like match sticks.
The "Mack-Daddy" 1970 500 made 425 hp and 550 ft/lbs with 10.5 compression. The 472 made slightly less. Those were gross HP ratings. After emissions and low CR's became a reality, the figures droped as low as 220 hp and 385 ft/lbs................. But, I'm going 100% off memmory on those figures. About 15 years ago, I talked a friend into droping a stock rebuild 1970 spec 472 into a late 50's Stude Golden Hawk, and he called me about 5 years ago to tell me it ran 11.99 in the 110 mph range. He was really excited, and thanked me over and over again for talking him out of a SBC. Interesting side story,,, When I worked as an engineer for GM, I was talking with an older caddy designer, and he told me GM almost built the ultimate muscle car based on the Monte Carlo [GM A-body] with the 425/550 caddy 500 in 1970. He had worked on the body, and told me it was a fastack. They killed the project because the car was too powerfull, and their research indicated the market would not have been there...... *sigh*..... If only... "The ultimate personal luxury power trip"
I shift mine at 5000rpm with no problems with the stock rocker set up, but I do run heavier valve springs, the springs are Chevy small block springs with 100lbs of seat pressure and a performance cam. The stock valve springs only have about 45lbs of seat pressure and if they are old and worn they will float the valves at 3800 to 4000 rpm on the stock cam. I know guys that spin the engine to 5500rpm with stock rockers, but you do want to make sure that all parts are new or in perfect condition.
I've got a Cad in my 65 Impala wagon but its a 4,000 lb. car. I really think your gonna have a tough time with this much torque on tap in a light T with 8.20-15 bias plies. It'll be a smoker for sure. Cadillac engine specific forum is here: http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/index.php
GREAT engine if you keep it washed with lots of cool air and use reasonably tall gears. It puts out huge amounts of radiated heat. A small engine compartment (nearly 100% of the time it is swapped into a smaller car, so the radiated heat has nowhere to go but into the other underhood parts) will greatly increase the heat levels in everything around it. Advice - INSTALL AN OIL TEMP GAUGE!! In most cir***stances, you will be creating a situation that makes the underhood heat much higher than when it was in the roomy Cadillac engine compartment and turning slowly with 2.60 gears. It will almost certainly tell you very soon that it wants an oil-cooler. I think there are lots of people running with hot oil and don't know it. That is the biggest killer of the Cad engines. When you install the oil cooler, it will then need some sort of oil primer or pre-luber to prevent dry-bearing starts. Here on the HAMB, I wrote about ironing out the bugs in my Cadillac-Hawk family car, and the experiences with the high oil temps, etc. Rather than type them up all over again (if anyone may be interested), you can either do a search, OR I think that if you click on my "handle" or screen name in the corner, you can see a list of all the posts I wrote and find it that way.. At least I THINK you can find them that way. If it is not easy to find, and if anyone may be interested to know the bugs I had to iron out, let me know and I'll see if I can find a link to the info I wrote about. It has been my daily family car and cross-country travelling car since I built it from a basket case in 1977 when I was still a kid, and has just about all the bugs worked out as far as I can tell (I still plan to improve the defroster and AC a bit more).
Thanks for the heads up on the oil temp, i think its a problem that is not always looked at with many hot engines.
I will be using a detroit locker as i do in my T which suffers very little wheelspin, Hopefully it will help
Totally buried in the garage but here's my Caddy for the well intended Henry J project. It was built by a local tractor puller. Intake is steel.
I have a 472 and th400 for sale if anyone wants it $175 It ran good when pulled. You must pick it up, I will not ship it.
If anyone is interested, look toward the bottom of the page... http://remanufactured.com/Cadillac_Engines.htm
I knew I shouldn't have read this post. Now I gotta try and figure out where to find a 500 CID Caddy for my shop truck.
Not sure if it was stated above, when I was looking into these they only wiegh 30lbs more if i recall correctly then a SBC once you get rid of the stock intake.
I have one sitting under my carport, and it has a 400 behind it. Runs good, but is ugly as hell and the ****** is smoked. Maybe I'll have the ****** rebuilt and stuff in the model A!! HMMMMM damn I am a Ford man by heart, but the specs on this engine just rock...
My Bro-in-Law runs one in his big ol Buick and he loves it. Here's a picture of it with his old '57 Westerner canned ham at Paso a few years ago.
Alright what is the difference from these and the 425? I already know the c.i. for all you smart ***es out there.....LOL
The 425/368 caddy replaced the 472/500 somewhere around 1977. While they are externally [almost] identical, and use the same intake, front cover, motor mounts, etc..., the 425 could/should be considered as a "caddy lite". Their still good tough motors, and can be built to thump out 500 ft/lbs of torque, but compared to the 500, the cranks are flimsy, the castings are thinner, and the engine was designed to be a smogger. If you remember the Pontiac 301,,,,, same thing. Worth noting however, the 425 uses a center sump oil pan and pump pickup. These will fit about 75% of the swaps where the regular 472/500 front sump pan will not clear the crossmember of most ch***is. The "hot setup" has traditionally been to use the pan and pickup from a FWD 'Eldo 500, but these are getting VERY difficult to find.
Ok cool, So it will be more than enough for my model a truck build. I also was wondering does this have the same weight as explained previously when everthing is taking off.
Click here to see what a stock 425 is capable of. Yes, very similar weight. 425 is slightly lighter,,, 20-30 lbs or so.
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