49-54 Chevy Frame Question

Hi all,

I’m looking at a 54 Chevy that i want to buy but it’s on a g body frame. I’m not sure it was channelled but maybe with a dark color the frame isn’t too visible and in the back with fender skirts it wouldn’t be too bad and or maybe adding a chrome strip at the bottom. However by the front wheels would drive me nuts.

Do you think it would be possible to have a shop move the corner of the ch***is back so it’s not visible and it’s possible to cover that with sheet metal like with a stock 54?

another option is to have a shop put the body on a stock frame and put a mustang 2 front end but then this project might get too pricey. I imagine moving the corner back towards the rear of the car would be a more cost effective option.

Also I do want to bag it and perhaps I would need to put skinnier tires especially in the front so they don’t rub (hard to tell until I see the car but I know some have bagged the 49-54 front with a g body frame and been ok)

View attachment 6654985 View attachment 6654986 View attachment 6654987

 

The 1953-54 Chevy sedan has a 115" wheelbase, the G-body El-Camino is 117", looks like instead of shortening the frame they pushed the front wheels 2" forward of where they should be, if the front wheels were in the proper place that would do a lot to hide the frame kickout.

 

thanks. What would the fix be at this point? Modify the ch***is to make that corner further back so it’s not as visible? It seems it would be too much work to move everything else further back as the engine/trans/steering column, radiator, etc would need work to fit it being shifted back.

also I read online just now many of the g body wheelbases are 108 inches. Hmmmm

 

I thought people added tubing front to back then cut off outer part. add where the blue line is and cut off outer part.
I said in a another thread don't swap frames it never works out.

 

Oh that’s a good idea to do it that way too! I’d be inheriting this problem.. seeing that frame corner will drive me nuts. The car is a solid deal though and it’s chopped and has gl*** so I’m thinking maybe get it and have a shop make the mod for me?

 

No part of this undertaking is going to be simple, any modification is going to be costly and will probably result in at least some modifying the car's floor pan as well.

The above modification would be a much better direction to go, but you may have to do a few modifications to the car's floor pan to accommodate the tubing connecting the front and rear sections of the frame. If you are going to do this, you may want to consider also adding an X that connects both the front and rear frames together as well as the two straight line connectors (put that X between the two blue lines above, connecting at the same points on the original frame as the straight pieces connect). You are going to want to have a look at things with the car on a hoist to determine the best modification.

Are the front tires currently centered in the wheel well fender openings? If the wheels are not centered in the fender openings, removing both of the frame kick outs outer edge will not center the front wheels in the fenders.
If the front wheels are currently centered in the fender openings, the G body frame was probably properly positioned on the car.

Your pictures do not provide a good view of the wheel opening at all.

I suspect the possibility exists that the current frame may have been moved forward into the front wheel well so the frame kick out clears the front floor pans, but it could have been installed at its current location because that was where the front suspension needed to be positioned. The kick out on the G body frame sits very close to the max turned tires. If the body was lifted up off the frame (probably has to be lifted in order to modify the side rail length), and the side rails are shortened, you would also have to cut into both front floor pans and notch them to clear the kick out on the frame, which could be a major operation.

Moving the frame kick out towards the rear will also move the entire front frame towards the rear. That moves the front crossmember towards the rear, which will probably also effect the locations of the motor & transmission, the front suspension, the steering box, the radiator support, and the front bumper brackets. I'm also probably missing something else...

 

Not a stock frame but close. You see it is straight front to back. Body mounts come out past the frame. The rockers extend down over frame. The g body frame is hitting the rockers and holding body higher on frame.

 

Generally, the car's floor pan is pretty much level from the seat forward until it reaches the firewall, then it bends upward. What ever you do to modify that frame will probably require a like modification to the floor pan, on both sides. You would also raise up the floor pan as high as the height of the frame parts. You will not be able to properly do the frame modification with out removing the body from the frame. The side rails fit between the rockers and the floor pan, there would be almost no space to perform any cutting or welding with the body on the frame.

I've spent 30 years of my life repairing floor pans and doing frame repairs and modifications at my own welding shop. There isn't enough space around any of the places I would have to work in, to make those modifications.

I would do the tubing connection and remove the kick out section completely, before I would do the frame modification you have designed.

I would also want to drive that car around a bit before I spent money on it, I'm betting the frame modification is the reason the car was not finished.
The steering column can have as many joints as it needs to get the job done, but having more then 2 joints requires additional support for the shaft between each joint to keep the shaft where it needs to be. if the front end of that steering shaft has a rubber vibration dampener in it, the part of the shaft from the forward joint to the box needs additional support.

 

Thanks! I noticed from looking at other threads and photos, that the 54/54 frame is pretty straight like in the photo you attached. I have read some people will channel the floors to accommodate the G-body frame. I also read some people say you will see the frame under the rockers unless it was channeled. If the car is kept a dark color and using a piece of chrome trim maybe it can be hidden.. but now the path to lowering is being resisted by the height of the G-body frame so that's a little annoying. I want to bag the car and have it sit low, it doesn't have to "lay frame" but maybe it will in this case because the body is sitting higher up. Unless this car was channeled which I doubt it was.

 

Maybe these pics will you see why the frame is showing.
I have tried to do what you are looking at. It will be a lot of work.

 

Thanks! That all makes sense. So if the front wheels are centered in the fender opening maybe it makes sense to drive it a little and see if I want to keep it. The price I would pay to buy something else and chop and have gl*** put in would exceed what I would be paying here. I think the car needs to be channeled regardless (I want to bag it and not have the frame showing much by the rockers) and doubt it was. That will be ultra expensive I'm sure.

I think there may be many reasons the car wasn't finished.. the guy selling it said he is considering taking it up north where he is moving if it doesn't sell. I'm sure the frame kickout doesn't bother some people. It would bother me for sure if I made this a finished car.. that and seeing the frame under the rockers when looking from the side at a distance.

 

The car in the pics is mine

 

Thanks I was literally just looking up 1954 stock chevys for sale online so I could see what the underneath looks like and get a sense... you beat me to it. I see what you mean, with the ch***is being closer to the rocker because of the width on the G-Body, it will show way more. Hmmmm. Lake pipes could block a little of the view but I'm not the biggest fan of them.

 

Live with it or find another car.
Chopping the top will be cheaper in the long run. Mine cost $3500 4 years ago.
3 inch chop.
Do a m2 in front with bags or leave stock and cut coils.
Blocks in back. Add disc if you want.
I have built 5 of these over the last 33 years.

 

Thanks! I'll take a look tomorrow and see if I can live with the car the way it shows. I can't think of any tricks to hide the frame other than lake pipes on the side and maybe near the fender opening a bit of sheet metal with a cutout around the frame so it doesn't look as open but I guess I'll see how it looks tomorrow.

I've tried to price chops and gl*** at local shops here in San Diego (there's really just 2) and they want $10 k for the chop plus another $2k to $4k for gl***. I'd be getting the car for basically the price of the chop.

 

Good luck which ever way you go.
How much more does the car need and how much more is done wrong ?
If you are going to bag it that means more frame work and suspension. It will add a lot more money to the car.
Maybe buy one bagged and forget the chop top. Save for chop later.
They don't look that bad unchopped.

 

If you wanted to take the car that far apart, you could probably cut the entire floor pan out, and install a G body floor pan while you were channeling it. Being able to get under the car as it sits to look at the condition of the floor pan, and the other already performed modifications would be a prudent move.
If the wheels are not centered in the wheel opening in the fenders, it may be possible to move the openings in the fenders... The openings would either have to move forward, or the wheel opening not be as wide, front to back.
How much of this stuff do you have the ability to do yourself, or are willing to buy the equipment and learn how to do? You are probably looking at several thousands of dollars to do the frame and body modifications.
If I'm spending your money, a custom built frame set up with air bags designed to fit under your body may not be a bad direction to go. The finished product would likely be a better car all around.

 

Thanks, I definitely want it bagged and chopped if I get anything and keep it. I saw there are plenty of bolt on air bag kits for the G-body. I thought this could be a good option to bag it. What I don't know is if the front wheels are going to rub a lot or not. I'm not sure if they are centered in the fender opening until I look tomorrow. Perhaps with skinny bias ply they will clear fine when bagged. Hmmm.

The car likely needs lots of odds and ends but the chop looks nice and gl*** is done. At some point I would get the paint and interior done if I liked it enough.

 

Thanks for the great advice. I have no ability to do anything metal work wise. I'd love to learn but realistically I should plan on a shop to do anything and it could be quite expensive. A few thousand dollars to have a shop do this would be cheap in my eyes but I'm sure it will cost a lot more than that here in San Diego. I doubt they installed a g body floor and did any channel work. I will look tomorrow and maybe I will be pleasantly surprised but I doubt it. I take it most people that go the g body route just drop the body right on the frame and don't channel it due to all the work required.

If it cost $5k to have the channel and floor work done it would be worth it but any more than that probably not. I've seen cars like this priced at $5k to $10k more so I'm already ahead if I buy it as it and spent another $5k for the g body alteration/fix.

 

Hmmmm. I looked at a photo of a 53/54 floor pan that you can buy.. I imagine the car was not channeled so the g body frame rails probably run like I have in the photo in red and the body/floor pans just sit right on the frame. Wouldn't that mean moving the kickout further toward the rear like I had drawn before not interfere with anything on the floor? Although if moved to far back it would leave some of that front area pan/body unsupported. If the car was channeled, I could see the frame kickout being an issue if its moved back and the floor has to be notched. I'm going to take a wild guess and say the car wasn't channeled. I guess I'll find out when I see it tomorrow. In this case maybe moving the kickout back isn't as huge of a job. If the car is not channeled as I suspect, it seems there is some room to weld/cut except the side of the rails near the rockers (although the body probably has to come off, unless it can be placed on blocks to create space to weld by the rockers)

I imagine channeling the car would be a lot more money than moving the kickout if there is a decent amount of room to work if the body/floor pan is just sitting right on top of the frame.

 

That was my first thought. Cars of that era can often use a subtle proportional adjustment in that direction.

 

If your going to move the front of the frame kick out, why not just install the tubes and connect both the front and the back together in a straight line with an X in the middle (if you used 2" x 3" x 1/8" wall rectangle tubing, you could loose the X), and loose the kick out completely? That would probably put the tubing close to where the 53/54 original frame ran.
By the look of the floor pan, you probably wouldn't need to alter the floor pan at all, if you no longer desire to channel the car.

 

Good excuse to learn metal working. I actually bought my flux/stick combo welder on Amazon for $100. And if you go to weld on it and mess up it's just steel. It can be cut off and rewelded

 

Also that steering shaft would need a support bearing. That rag joint isn't going to last long. And steering will be sloppy without a support

 

Honestly that whole steering shaft could probably be replaced with a single jeep or Astro shaft

 

thanks yea that makes sense may as well run tubing close to were the original frame is if it isn’t channeled and I don’t plan to channel it.

 

thanks! I would like to buy a welder and learn to weld so I can do bumper brackets and stuff like that but I’m afraid to touch a ch***is as an amateur without years of experience.

 

I figured it looks sketchy based on the photo. I’m not even sure if the car steers well as is! I guess I’ll find out later today.

 

I’m sure it would be better to run a single if I can find something that fits.

 

I’ll offer an opinion. I think your walking into a big dose of whoop ***!