I just purchased a 1995 5.0 with AOD, it has 97K on the equipment. I would like your recomendations on if I should freshin it up. What you recommend for upgrades ie... GT 500 heads, cam or other). should i rebuild the top and or bottom end. What do you recommend I do to the AOD (tune up flush). oking for advise
Great choice of engine and trany combo. I did the same swap in a 64 Falcon several years ago. I did a re-ring on the engine and a shift enhansor kit on the AOD, ran a 3.25 gear and got 24mpg on the road. I would recomend the same. Enjoy!!
I don't know your car or situation so I will make some general post and some may or may not apply to you. -I'm not sure of your budget but if you take it apart then rebuild it properly. If you think you can do that for $300 then just leave it together and don't waste your money (IMHO anyways lol). -How did it run before or do you know? -Was it from a Mustang, Crown Vic, F150?? -What goals are trying to achieve? Do you want 200 hspr or 500? -Carb or efi? -You are already going to have other expenses in the swap that you will occur so be wary of that. I have seen plenty of times where people blow their whole budget on a bunch of stuff they "want" not "need" then have no money left for motor mounts, exhaust work, radiator hoses and all that other stuff that usually needs to be replaced when doing a swap. If it was me I would just put it in the car and get it running. Get the swap expenses behind you then worry about rebuilding the motor in the future if needed. The 5.0l were good little engines and there is no reason it won't go 170+K so you should still have plenty of life needed if necessary. Once you get that behind you the sky is the limit when it comes to modifications. Heads have always been a week spot on Fords. I would do a set of Trick Flow or AFR or Brodix heads, a new hyd roller cam, intake and exhaust. I am not a big fan of the Edelbrock stuff everyone seems to use. They are good quality but they never seem to make the big power all the other brands make.
Since your donor is a 1995 the transmission is an AODE which has better internals than the earlier AOD but it is a computer controlled unit.1993 and earlier were non-computer,so if you are going to run the EFI and the AODE you will need the donor cars harness.Here is a good comparison chart for cylinder heads:http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/630.shtml a lot of good info here also:http://www.network54.com/Forum/119417/thread/1119484127/Aftermarket+cylinder+head+comparison. A lot of the hard core Ford guys on www.sbftech.com like the Trick-Flows but in some cases you will need special parts from Trick-Flow to use them.The biggest deciding factor is $$$ we can probably give better advice if we knew the budget you have to work with.To learn more about the AOD this is the place: www.clickclickracing.com
I am getting the electrical harness and everything with. I did nit see it run but it is garanteed to run. I can do 3K if need be to get it all going, If I need to do a 9" rear we can take 1K off that budget. I want to do this right the first time. I will go through all the info you gave me. It will be hard for me to get back to the HAMB after tonite due to the holiday's. Thank you very much for the great info.
have heard the heads off an explorer were similar to/same as gt40 heads? supposedly flow better than mustang heads too. i could be wrong, in which case somebody will correct me and i will learn too.
The Explorer heads were GT-40P heads. The spark plug is moved over some and can create problems when it comes to header/spark plug interference. They do flow a bit better but unless you are on a really tight budget I would just buy some decent heads with proper bolt on parts available.
As far as the budget goes if you are working with $3k I would hold onto it tightly and spend wisely. For a mild motor the stock rear end will be fine IMO. If you stay with the efi (which I like) you will have to add a return fuel line, need an efi fuel pump, possibly modify the fuel tank. You will need a front sump oilpan. If you want to go carb you can buy an external controller for that transmission as well. Expect to pay $600 plus you will need a carb and intake. $3000 sounds like a lot but it can be spent quickly in unexpected parts and labor costs. Every project I have ever done always cost more than you think going in so be careful as to where you spend and it will go ok. Don't be afraid to get everything running and the bugs worked out then worry about modifying things with the cash left over.
All depends on how long you plan to keep it and whether you plan to abuse it (full throttle take-offs or rubber burning) or add high performance mods at some point. 1st, that engine is likely good for 150k miles or better before it needs attention (***uming you are fine for the moment with stock hp). But the transmission likely won't make it that far. So while it is out of the car, I would have a reliable transmission shop go through it with a rebuild kit. If the ****** leaves you on the side of the road there is towing to pay and about 1/3 of the transmission shop cost is removing and reinstalling. 2nd, I would try a fit check with that combo before further planning, unless you are certain it will fit without modifications. I am currently looking at installing a 4r70w (next generation) behind a 351W. I was told by experts that the AOD will fit. But the AODE and 4r are the same size and are slightly different from the AOD, principally at the bellhousing, and I might need to modify the firewall. So before I buy one, I will get a transmission core/case from the junkyard to fit-test. Hopefully your AODE will fit without mods, since it is a better, second generation.
No firewall mods are needed, I have a 1984 Lincoln 5.0 and AOD in my '54 and all the info you need for mounting and etc is in the "sticky" file http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=18186
Jeff, I had seen the website you had linked. That site includes the following statement about the AODE/4r70w: "It is dimensionally equal to the AOD with the exception of about 7/8 inch (22 mm) of added length in the bell housing area" No where on that site to they say it will fit this application. When looking at (buying) a crate engine from Ford Racing, their tech manager stated the bell housing was larger on the 4r70w (than the AOD) and I might need to modify the fire wall on a 55 Ford to put one behind a 351W. When I talked to the people at Performance Automatic, they did not know if one would fit (without modification to the fire wall), because the transmission (4r70w) was not identical in dimensions to the AOD, particularly at the bell housing. At this point in my build, I do not want to buy a transmission and then find out I have to modify the car for it to fit. The high performance transmission builders will give a good warranty, but will not take a transmission back after you buy it. They make it clear that fitment is the buyers responsibility. I don't want to gamble on whether a $4,000 transmission will fit or not http://www.performanceautomatic.com...-transmissions/aode---4r70w-transmission.html. Have you installed one (AODE or 4r70w) behind a 302 or 351 in a 55/6 Fairlane?
I don't know how much a '54 differs from a '55 in the trans hump area of the floor,but when I mocked up my '54 with a 351/4r70w, I had to modify the floor by the bell housing. We used an air chisel with a wide blunt tip and m***aged the sheet metal, stretching it about 1/2 inch. Thats all it took.
We do know the AOD will fit and will clear without mods maybe go this route:http://www.transmissioncenter.com/A...sions_and_AOD_Performance_Parts_from_PATC.htm Scroll down to level Four and it's a far cry from $4K in price and you won't have to deal with the computer BS.
Since the subject of SBF heads was brought up here is some stuff to ponder (lots of reading)http://www.fiveohinfo.com/performance/gt40-gt40p.html and http://www.carbdford.com/tech/flowdata.htm After reading the info on the GT40 & GT40P this would be a bargain:http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-302-351...Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a40ab883&vxp=mtr
Jeff, thanks for the Transmission Center link. However, I had previously visited their site. When I had visited the A O Dominator looked good and is much less at $2,500. But it still retains some AOD weaknesses for which there are no improvements/upgrades available. In addition, it is hard to find the warranty and research on the company did not identify a long history. I looked at many other vendor sites as well. The two that are most appealing are Gearstar and Performance Automatic. Interestingly, they are both well established companys, offer good warranties, and do not offer the 4r70w ge****t in an AOD like the Transmission Center. The 4r70 is more desirable because it is much stronger, the weaknesses of the AOD/E were addressed, and it has a wide ratio gear set. As an added plus, PA's transmission price includes an easy to set up control box to dial in you personal preferences (no PC connection required). With Gearstar you have to buy the box separate. If the needed modification to my 55 is no greater than Flyboy found on his 54, I will do the modification. I pulled a 4r70w from a car at a local junk yard yesterday. Now just waiting for delivery of the crate engine, which is running behind on the build schedule, partially due to weather (Indiana). Jeff, I do appreciate your input. My problem has been that, until hearing from Flyboy, I had not found anyone with the 4r70w behind a 351W in a 55/6 and need to be certain the 4r will fit before I commit to buying. So this discussion has been very valuable. Thanks.
Flyboy, What motor mounts did you use. I have already purchased the Anchor 2725/6, but can send them back if another (2329?) will work better. Also, I bought a set of polished headman (88406) headers. What did you use? I have already completely rebuilt the front end, including steering column and box, so don't what to make any changes.
One of the best and most knowledgeable builders of these transmissions is Silverfox the moderator here: http://www.clickclickracing.com/ also found here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/260730/ may be worth reaching out to him.
If it doesn't fit get a BFH and make it fit.. I can't imagine trying to do a swap and thinking everything is going to fit perfect when you are using parts from a 50 year span. I think your expectations are unrealistic but that is just me . I cut up several things when I swapped the 5.0l in my 56. I notched the engine mount towers to place the engine where I wanted it. I also modified the X member under the car to work with the headers and exhaust I wanted. When I swap in the 460/AOD I have for it there is going to be some serious mods to the X member. My point is if you are afraid to modify anything then leave it stock. I'm not sure where you got your AOD info but AOD's can be made to handle all kinds of power if they are from the right place. I have a 1000 hspr Lentech sitting in my shop right now. IMHO a mild AOD would work just fine behind what you are doing but it's your car so you do what you want. One more also, I wouldn't put a $600 set of aluminum heads on any engine I own. There is a reason a quality head costs up in the $1500 range. I don't know how many horror stories I have heard about Pro Comp Ford heads. A You get what you pay for. Good luck with it no matter what way you choose to go.
Fordbyjay, Thanks for your input. I'm not afraid of making mods, have all the equipment and skills, and have already done some on the car. But I like to draw on the experience of people like yourself who have been there and done that over the 50+ years, as you point out, to minimize the time spent on the install. My transmission information comes from the professional builders, knowledgeable in engineering and experienced with race proven testing. On this basis they rate their transmissions and know the weaknesses and strengths (what breaks and what doesn't). As for engine, it is being built by Steve Schmidt Racing on a Dart block. I understand your comment about the cheap stuff and fully agree, I am not going cheap. My approach is the same as yours - You get what you pay for. - No Pro Comp heads. The heads are Edelbrock E-205 Series http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/cylheads/ford/sb_e-205.shtml . I have already replaced the entire rear end ***embly with a new, shortened, Currie 9" Ford, traction loc, complete with new brake ***emblies and custom rims that let me put 9" tread to the pavement to hook things up. I have also already converted the front to disc brakes. The body and paint work are complete. Replaced gl*** that needed it. Replaced all the rubber (what a pain). Replaced or had all the chrome re-chromed and stainless buffed out or replaced. Also, rehabbed and refinished the steering wheel. Am welding up and grinding down alll the holes in the engine bay now, before painting to show quality. Once the drive train is complete and running I will rewire the entire car with the Ron Francis kit I have sitting here. Then the car will go to the upholstery shop. So, I am not looking to go cheap on the transmission either. This will be a show car, and a street rod/sleeper that can go places. In the interim, when waiting on parts, I will continue to cruise and participate in local shows in my 34 Ford, 5-window, Pro-Street. As this two seater has a full tubbed-out, fuel cell and battery consumed trunk, I can't go anywhere with it (unless I want to haul it). So I am anxious to get the 55 Crown on the road. And if someone has a kit or info that will make the swap go quicker, I am looking for it!
FF55, I am using factory 302/351 mounts on the engine. the car has the original engine crossmember but the original mounts on the crossmember were removed and a set of triangulated mounts were fabbed and welded on the crossmember. there are pictures on my photobucket acct. I'm also using the factory '54 rear trans crossmember with a factory AOD/4r70w trans mount. You may need to modify the trans crossmember just under the tail shaft housing. Just a small radius cut would do it. I didn't do it to mine, hope I won't have to later.
FF55, as far as headers go, I was going touse some factory tube headers I got off a Lincoln Towncar but they wouldn't clear the firewall. I bought some factory cast iron 289/302 headers that were used in the '60's I think on Falcons or Mustangs. They looked like they will clear the firewall ok, although I will have to do a little grinding on the right side upper A arm bracket/mount. It won't take much, just some space for a little engine movement. The car is still at the paint/body shop getting it's final smoothing before top coat. the roof has been painted but not color sanded or buffed yet. When I get it back I will fit the engine/trans combo and do the final fine tuning for fit.
These are a good option for clearance http://www.google.com/search?q=289+...LAYiLiAKc-IGwAw&ved=0CF8QsAQ&biw=1143&bih=634 The HEDMAN 88400 header is a shorter tube block hugger and will clear the steering box as it is shown as 289 Early Mustang/Falcon application it has 1 1/2" primaries,the early Mustang/Falcon listed for a 351W swap does not clear well because the primaries are larger.There is a 351W manifold similar to the 289 Hi-Po's that works well but not real EZ to find.
Flyboy, Thanks much. I see how you did it. Well engineered, solid, strong. I bought the Anchor 2725/6 mounts looking for the easy way to do the swap. But I don't like what I see. They are made in India , out of painted black mystery metal (they are so cheap it is scary) , and don't sit well on the 55 factory cross member. Again, you have a good solid set up; same arrangement the Ford engineers developed and used on even high powered cars and trucks. I trust you did a fit test before welding, to make sure the engine/trans sat high/low front/rear where you wanted it. I have been looking to utilize the factory cross member pads as a base if possible, since I know they are at the same elevation and the swap might go quicker. Now I am just sounding off ... but I am astonished that nobody makes a good swap kit. I call the vendors and search the web sites and there are kits for the 5/6/7 Chevys. Ford made a million 55s and another million 56s and the aftermarket doesn't make kits for the Fords. Unbelieveable! Again, thanks for sharing. That is a good solid setup and the pics are excellent. I may wind up doing the same thing.
The ANCHOR mounts are late model Mustang part numbers and yes another company goes the "outsource garbage" route but there is a more costly alternative http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-4-1124R-Transmission-Mustang/dp/B000CN98C6 When the Energy Suspension mounts were listed in our "sticky FAQ" file they were about $40 less they have taken a big price increase since (oil by-product) they are USA made.There is this alternative as well http://www.butchscoolstuff.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=22 I would like to see what this looks like installed,as you can see it would not be using the method most of us have used in the past with factory parts.Rock Auto sells a DEA Products mount as well as ANCHOR the DEA mount is $10 higher in price each and there are these http://www.americanmuscle.com/motor-mounts-8495.html looks like they rated well.
Jeff, Had seen the Energy Suspension mounts on Summit Racing's site and then the manufacturers for more detail. The appear to be much better quality and I always prefer to buy USA. You had referenced Butch's in some earlier post and their set up appeared a bit jerry-rigged. Also had me puzzed when the description read that it was for a stick or c4 and for anything else (AOD) you needed to modify (why am I buying the kit then?). Did not look at Rock Auto, but will. I thank you for sharing this information and your experience in the area. You are a major ***et to this forum. Hope you have the best of holidays.
I thought that was strange about the Butch's setup too,since the AOD & C4 are the same length and the mount is the same place from the experience of so many that have done the swap,oddly enough the transmission mount they show and also Speedways looks like the ANCHOR 2253.
FF55, I must confess, I didn't come up with this arrangement. When I boght the car it had a 302/C4 combo already installed. I swapped out that arrangement with the 351/4r70w. Only had to modify the trans crossmember as the 4r70 is a little longer at the rear trans mount. I just notched the factory crossmember and welded a flat piece of 3/16 steel with a couple of gussets. Easily done. I did do some re-inforcing welds on the engine mounts as some of the welds weren't too good. Let me know if you need more info. Good luck.
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