Projects 52 Buick, crank in engines water jacket, What should I do?

Hey guys, I have a 1952 Buick Super that I bought last year. Car's in great shape. Hardly any rust, which is why I am wanting to do a full restore on it.

Was on here last year when I started working on it. Rebuilt the brakes, shocks, carburetor, ignition, radiator, gas tank and fuel lines. Got the car running great. Would start right up and run smooth. Drove it around the block a few times and seemed to shift fine but did not go over 30 mph.

After driving it a few short times found a water leak. It was coming from the water jacket on the drivers side. There's a 10" long crack along the water jacket. Tried welding it in the car with no luck. I am thinking about taking it out and having a pro weld it right then install it back in but was thinking I might just have the engine taken apart to have anything that needs replacing replaced. I did try to drain the coolant from the drain on the passenger side of the engine and it seemed like the water ports were clogged as I could not get any water to come out.

So my questions:
1. Should I get someone to weld this block and throw this bad boy back in the car or should I just replace this block with another one and rebuild the engine?

2. How can I tell if this transmission is good? It's the dynaflow trans. Would hate to put $1,000-$5,000 in the engine and find the trans is messed up.

3. If the trans is messed up is there a different lets say manual trans that will mount up? Would really like to keep the straight 8 if I can. Edit: Looks like Bendtsens sells a mount kit where I could mount a 700r4 in it.

4. Throw everything away and put a different engine and trans in.

What the heck would you do?

Jon

 

You least expensive solution is probably to pull the engine, or at least the front end sheet metal as an****embly, to gain access to the block for repair. Taking the engine out allows you to take the engine to a shop instead of them coming to you.

The other alternative would to look for a good used engine. What shouldbe in your car is a 263 cubic incher. As for changing the transmission to a Buick stick, there are two problems. One...the crankshaft flange is different on the Dynaflow engines than the stick shift models. Second, the Special and Super series manual trans is a weak unit. It can be identified by the 5 bolt top cover. The much stronger big Buick trans, used with the 320 engines and has a 6 bolt top cover, does not bolt up to the smaller engine bell housing.

You can, however, get and adapter plate from www.transmissionadapters.com Bendtsens in Ham Lake, Minnesota, and use any common Chevy pattern manual or automatic transmission. It's not cheap, about $1000, but is very nicely made. But once again, their are other considerations. Replacing the transmission with an open drivelive unit requires replacing the torque tube rear end and driveline. That has been done numerous times, so it's not insurmountable, but is necessary.

Ray

 

I was faced with the same choice on my first '52 Pontiac straight 8 and dual range hydra-matic, after looking at having to send the water pump out of state to be rebuilt, I decided on a newer powertrain. The straight 8s in both Buick and Pontiac form while functional were never performers or efficient when compared to the V8s.

As for me, I need to be able to have something I can get parts for and get it back on the road.

How about a legendary Buick Nailhead dressed and painted to look like it was installed in the late 50's?

or a Buick 455 and th350 similarly disguised?

 

I just sold a pair of good used but disassembled 263 engines to a fellow in Belton, MO. Had them advertised on here for 6 months, with a few price reductions. Finally let the pair go for a pittance, $125 each. Now I've got people coming out of the wallpaper wanting them.

If you want I can send you his contact info. Blocks were both standard bore, and DynaFlow cranks. He may be willing to just sell a block.

 

in order to PROPERLY weld up a crack in block it would have to be hot-tanked first to clean it. doing it any other way is just asking for issues down the road...pun intended.

 

Which powertrain did you use?

 

Hey Ray, yea I checked them out. $1000 for the plate seemed a little high. Then adding the engine build and then having to replace everything from the trans back might get me in the $8000 range. Would love to just find another straight 8 for sale but they are hard to come by.

 

Can you give him my info or message me his? Thanks.

 

The fact that is a hardtop is a big plus for me. The car looks like it deserves to have some time and money spent on it. I have no idea if it would fit, but if it was me, I'd look for a 320" Roadmaster engine. Anyone on here know if it will fit or has done it? Go to a late model overdrive automatic and an open drive line for the ultimate cruiser. I used to vintage race with a couple of guys with track roadsters with 320's. They went like hell. They said they'd bore 'em out 1/4" (!?!?) and use International Harvester pistons, shave the head, and add a reground cam. If they could find a factory dual carb setup, they'd use that; otherwise, fab up a manifold and throw 5 or 6 97's on em. A proper exhaust and you're off to the races. I'm not suggesting you go that far, but you get the idea.

 

Welding after a hot tank cleaning is one way. Another way is to have plugs put in after cleaning. If the metal is thick enough, one can make a plate to put over the crack, drill and tap about 15 holes on each side, then use JB Weld for a gasket. I have seen that last way work just fine for years. Cost is a box of 10-32 screws and the JB weld.

 

Put a small block Ford in it.

Sorry I just could not resist.

I can't see the crack so it is hard for me to make a judgment about your situation, and I have no idea what condition the engine is in. If I was not capable of tearing it down for inspection I probably would not take it somewhere and tell them just replace anything that needs replacing. But there is hope for you here:
http://jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tear-down-and-inspection-is-this-still-tech-week.679583/

If the block is just cracked you may fix it with water glass or maybe you can V it out and weld it up with Ni rod or have a professional weld it. I could tell you more about welding it if I could see it.

 

I found a couple Pontiac V8s, the runner is a '70 Pontiac 265hp 350/th350 the thumper is a '69 Pontiac 400 350hp both have been rebuilt at some point in the past, both currently run, the runner 350 was $150 with the trans and the thumper 400 was free (no trans) from a friend cleaning out his shop.

I'm pushing hard to get the '52 Hardtop on the road for our son to use during his senior year in HS, so the 2bbl runner gets the nod for now and I'll have the thumper on the stand ready.

My Pontiac happens to be a 2dr Hardtop Super Chieftain Deluxe Catalina, several locals strongly suggested the car deserved restoration. I can't afford more than one (or two) toys and while anything can break down I really want to enjoy driving them. Its a long way between destinations here in Montana and I can't see myself hauling extra water pumps, distributors, etc... (like my flathead friends) on every roadtrip because NAPA doesn't have them.

 

Anyone have a idea if a 1973 Buick Riviera 455 would be a good option? Found one for a good price that is running. Going to check all of the measurements and see if it could be a good option for a front clip. If not just use the 455 and th400. Just throwing out ideas here. Want to make the right choice.

 

If I remember correctly the '73 Buick 455 is down on power from the earlier years but should improve the drivability over the straight 8. Take some time and see if you can track down a HAMBer on the Buick Social forum who may have done the swap.

Off topic - jmills is that a Guzzi in your profile pic?

 

As good an option as any, I doubt that the clip will go but the engine and******* dressed to kill would be as sweet as sugar pie.

 

Here's some numbers on the 73 Riviera vs the 52 Super
73 Riviera / 52 Super
Wheelbase: 122 / 121.5
Length: 223.4 / 206.2
Width: 79.9 / 79.9

 

might as well fill the car with concrete then . talk about making it unreliable ... a 231 oddfire would be a better choice .

if it was me the block needs to be rebuilt and cleaned anyways so I would pull it and tank it then go from there . either way it needs to be fixed or replaced . and after tanking you can get a better look at it as it might have more cracks in the jackets that you cannot see . and the jackets presently are cruded up . if the block is non repairable , you can look for another block to use your parts in or change powerplants completely ( go Buick ) . as for the trans if it cannot get over 30 mph somethings wrong .

 

Locknstich !
Check it out- especially the repair examples.

http://www.locknstitch.com/Metal_Stitching.htm

 

I've checked out locknstich before. I might try it but just need to get the engine out of the car. The steering is right in the way.

Question: how much does it hurt the value of the car if the engine has been locknstich or welded? Would like to do a full restore and would hate to have this affect someone from buying it or not because of the fact of the engine having had a crack in it.

 

Did you check out the repair examples? It certainly has no effect on anything but the buyers perceived notions are a wild card

 

It won't affect the value at all. However, clipping it will affect the value, and not in a good way....

 

I say the best thing to do first is to take the engine out and weld or locknstich the crack. Reinstall it, see if there is a leak and see how the transmission shifts. Like I said the transmission seemed like it was shifting find but I only got up to 30mph on some side streets. Did not have a chance to get it on a open road.

 

In drive a Dynaflow doesn't shift at all.

 

clean up area around crack drill both ends and up some epoxy to seal up crack since their is no real pressure on cooling system, build up steel shafts with epoxy all the time. used to braze them until thenewer epoxy came along.

 

Had a '55 Chevy with a 6 cyl. in it with a crack the length of the block.Ground it to a v shape,drilled holes like 55 Dude mentioned and then JB Weld was spread in and drove it 2 more years. Cheap and easy and it worked.

 

A 10" crack is a LONG crack in a block. 263's aren't that rare, i'd look for a replacement. PM's you the number of a guy that has some.

 

Don't clip it, but maybe DO drop that 455 in there. You'll never regret it. I'd say regardless of the model year it's clearly UP on power vs the straight 8. You'll want to upgrade the brakes, tires, maybe the sway bar, but in the end it would be a car that lives well on pump gas and could fry the tires for 500'. I'll bet at 65-70 MPH it would do high teens in mileage too. You asked what some would do, that's my input.

 

I'd try to find an older nailhead, a 322 would be great! But then, the '73 engine, trans and rear end are a package deal and the price is right, get the old Buford on the road and improve the smogger engine at your leisure in the future......

 

I have a good 263 complete with Dynaflow trans for $750.00 if you are interested. Came out of my brothers 52 Super when he put a 455 in it. Located in southern Ohio.

 

To check out the trans and the rest of the drivetrain, you might try some water glass (sodium silicate) to at least temporarily seal the block.

http://catalog.miniscience.com/Catalog/Sodium_Silicate/Default.html

Make sure that you DON'T have any coolant leaking into the crankcase before trying this method. You don't want this mixture getting into the oil.