Technical 54 WCFB woes and my incompetence

No sir not just the points fixed it. But the points and upping the primary jets by four sizes and increasing the secondary jets by 2 sizes, made it smooth where I wanted it to be. The full technical no pop full throttle should surp*** 4400 rpm’s, this still starts to burble at 3900, but even then it will hit 4500, with only a men grumble out back, but only when I force it to stay in first gear.

that is not how this customer will drive it. They simply wanted the freedom to press the gas pedal and go without floundering. And all of that is gone thanks to YOU people ho stayed in my *** to stop trusting pertronix’s go or no go failure.

mall it took was bigger jets, and a simply well adjusted points set.

thank you all!

 

I believe @moriarty told you his pal had the same problem and ditched the pertronix about 6000 posts ago. Too bad you ignored a real treasure of knowledge.

 

To be fair, he ignored pretty much everyone........

 

54 WCFB woes and my incompetence

 

True, but Mark doesn’t yell louder if you don’t listen. He stated his case several times based on real life experience, and then checked out. Some people are too smart to help. Now, on to death wobble and cowl steering…..
And Lloyds OT wheels!
I kid…..

 

Congrats! Lol this has been fun to watch. It’s always something simple.

and it’s very often what you swear it couldn’t be lol.

Kick *** man, onto the next project

 

it was very close to about 6000 posts ago. But you got to understand that even pertronix themselves say that they are basically a fail or no fail situation.
Not a partial fail like one of our clan convinced me of.

And, Not just having one experience with a buddies car and going back to points and fixing it. I wanted to know why, and I got the answer why logically from a member, and I started correcting the problem from there on’
I fixed the last part by going to .064 I’m my secondaries.

do, you guys start accepting the kudos I’m giving you or you can keep complaining that I didn’t listen!

Because if you do not give a good counter argument, there is no reason to listen to you just because somebody else did some thing doesn’t make it logical to do that, and it doesn’t mean that that is the truth to the situation mechanically without logical reasoning!

I’m annoyed, but I’m satisfied, thank you guys all for being there for me

 

How much is the bill?

 

Oh, I absolutely feel you like the persons that told me that the valves are bad or there’s too much carbon, or the timing chain was too loose. They were all wrong, and they were wrong because they couldn’t back up there statements with facts.

There was a flat line in the carburetor, and that flat line was taken care of by increasing the jet sizes, which, as one moderator pointed out, were many times too small, and it was also taken care of by the proper dwelltime for the spark, which is not something that a pertronix has ever had an issue with that I can find on any of their troubleshooting pages. But one of our members said that is probably a messed up dwell animatronics is failing because of it, but the pertronix isn’t feeling it was the dwell count, that was failing, because straight from the birds mouth pertronix either work or don’t work, and they all have a set dwell time per application. And I don’t know how they get that set 12 time and less it’s from the air gap which I failed to measure but only one human being told me to check out and only one human being, that same guy, said that the Petronas are probably not working properly because there’s not a proper dwell amount.

Anyway, I’m ****ing celebrating and I want to thank you all for poking me in the back when I was giving up and keeping me going in the right direction! Thank you guys that kept trying to see BOTH sides of THE DISCUSSION!

 

You guys don’t need to worry about the bill and how much it is. My customer does not pay for my research time for things that I have failed to pick up over the last 41 years of working on cars.

 

I’ve been experiencing death wobble since 1986, and I know how to correct it. But I don’t know how to miss trust pertronix when they say they are a go or no go system.

if you want to be a smart ***, I will be a smart *** back. But I respect to people here that actually tried to help and not just say what their bodies did to fix their **** without adding logical information into the mix. Have a great night, and thank all your friends for me because they were there not talking **** and offering more logical conclusions.

 

Gracious to the end.

 

I did say that worn out old motors usually need more fuel.
As far as the Pertronix...No personal experience but I did have a Mallory Uni-light that would die and then cool off and then re-start. Also HEI modules that would completely die on me .The GM original ones were the best until they were all old too.
Somebody here could probably explain the P/T problem in tech terms but if not, so be it .I'll file it away in the memory bank anyway

 

**L, bro Don’t be a jerk. The people that said to just change **** without offering a logical reason behind it were definitely wrong.
I have more experience in fixing **** then you can imagine. I just don’t have experience with this particular carburetor and dual points ignition’s.

you may think that I can’t do **** but if he knew who I was, you know that I can do far more than you can imagine.
In fact, I stopped working this car today to fix a fellows gramophone and you probably don’t even know what a gramophone is!!

I’m getting really pissed off with these after replies. I’m gonna say good night before I start acting like some of the people that have replied.

I can be snarky and snide also. But I chose to learn, over talking **** like a dill hole.


I’m out guys, follow the loose steering post for more idiotic suggestions and grand reparté.

 

Pretty amazing that the mods reopened this thread, to see that a remedy was ins***uted and this particular roller coaster ride came to a safe stop!



I learned a lot, from all of the input, from various people that had something to say.
It made me smile, to know that the fix, was a simple one, and in the long run, this was some pretty entertaining dialog and interaction by a variety of interesting participants!

Thanks from Dennis.

 

So you feel a timing chain that allows 12/14 degrees of crank rotation, while the cam and valves are lagging behind, is okay?

 

You think the cam and valves lagging behind because they are, but you also don’t understand that the variation, with proper adjustments will allow this car to still live on for another 50,000 miles.l, and still perform nicely once the spark and the air fuel mixture are copacetic.

and to Mr. 41 GMC I thank you for your entertaining breaks and following this thread.
But there was definitely no one thing that fixed it. It was a combination of many things over many trials and tests and it definitely wasn’t weak valve spring . It was definitely not a compression issue, it was definitely not a coil issue, and it was never a timing issue even with a 12-14 degree timing chain slop issue, and. 50 degree advance…. At all those places it ran the same.
And, it ran far too good up to the failure point of 2800 rpm’s and fell on its face in the primaries, but not until 3550 or 3850 in the secondary Venturi.
There wasn’t enough richness, and there wasn’t enough spark-together, was the detriment.


This motor, now runs foot to the floor WOT without sputtering and flatlining, exactly what I was looking for, and too many people said it can’t because it’s worn out, but cooler heads kept up, persisted, and prevailed, because everything finally made sense logically.

thank you guys, I’ll recommend you to anyone who comes to me with problems I cannot tackle on my own.

much love to you all!! Even to the yokel and his Netanyahu comment!

 

Do you realize how much better the engine will perform with a decent timing set?
Or maybe you can explain to me , logically Ofcourse, why it won’t do anything but cost time and money?
For all the work, effort and research and time you’ve spent on improving the way the engine runs, you should complete the job.

 

https://www.hothemiheads.com/cam_shafts_timing/timing_set_original_repl.html

 

You may need to give a logical reason to have that timing set purchased and installed.

 

I'm glad I no longer need to DWELL on this problem.
The fix was NOT points versus Pertronix.
It was incorrect dwell.
You're welcome.
Bye.

 

Logically

 

Yes you are correct pprather , dwell. I was not aware that a pertronix had a dwell control module. I’m ***uming neither did most of you. Only one person mentioned it (thank you Moriarty), I can only include in my ***umption that the dwell time is effected by the air gap between the magnetic pickup pulses, unfortunately for this unit, (I’ve posted the part number- D57-22) it does not have any gap adjustments. It simply screws into place.
I guess it’s possible that the reluctor when that snaps over the distributor shaft lobes was mis-boxed, perhaps it was for a different distributor style. Without further research it is all a guess.

I asked many questions and refuted many things because they didn’t make sense.
If I cannot explain to my customer, then I won’t do the work, how can a person do that to a customer? If it was my car, I don’t have a problem guessing, as most of my guesses are close to the mark, but I won’t to that to a customer.

My point in all my arguments is to not cheat my customer by guessing, THAT is why I was consistently looking for logic to match each test and repair.

Timing chain…. Jeeze guys YES a new chain set and new rings with a nice surface hone and gapping each ring to each cylinder would make it run like new. I was HAPPY just making it run as it was designed. It will easily rev well over 4000 rpm’s now, but it isn’t being driven by a teenager, so it will never see rpm’s over shifting speeds of the two speed transmission. But the car isn’t at my shop for a full restoration, it was there to solve driveability issues. And with ALL your Guys’s (guyzez) persistence to pin this down, the problem was solved with coil dwell and carburetor jet sizes.

My final remark about timing. Some were actually stunned by 50 degrees of total advance cruising: well y’all gotta thank yourselves for that information, I saw it from the jalopy journal……. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/331-hemi-timing.595051/

Now folks I move onto a simple set of shocks, 4” whitewall modern radial tires, and one sloppy left inner tie rod end, and ****ercup is finished.

thank you all.

 

Hi Gary, I am glad the car is running satisfactory. It doesn't sound that the owner is going to take it to the strip anytime soon and should be very happy with it. Plus, I think some of us learned a little to say the least. P.S. I know what a gramophone is......I looked it up! Ha-Ha!

 

Hahahahah. My voice text called it a grandma phone

 

Pertronix modules control dwell, multi spark, and advance. They are NOT a switch as you stated multiple times. They are electronic devices, and they are very sensitive to the current you feed them. I suspect that 12-volt negative ground unit was not very happy being wired up backwards to kinda-sorta-almost function on a 6-volt positive ground car. I posted a part number for the correct 6v +ground Mopar V8 Pertronix unit several days ago but you may not have noticed in your target fixation on fattening up the carburetor to make those plugs even darker. We're all glad you got it figured out.

 

that part number I took off of the module itself is not for a 6 V positive ground? How the hell did it work at all lol
And if it’s not a simple switch, what is it? And I know it’s definitely not multi spark.