Technical 54 WCFB woes and my incompetence

Great overview thank you.

 

In this scenario I think one has to draw the line somewhere and that's what I think Gary is doing. This high mileage engine is blowing blue oil smoke out the exhaust, which eludes to a long list of worn parts so, unless one is willing to commit to a full overhaul it would not make much sense to change out just the chain.

 

That oil burn goes away when it’s warmed up to temp. The valve stem seals are likely harder than petrified wood. It’s not smoky after warmed and idling though..

the engine and engine bay and under carriage are remarkably clean, not warshed clean, but lifetime of leak free clean, which impressed me quite a bit. The ladies father did a remarkable job in the upkeep of this car.
I’m certain it will take four or five more years before it’s driven enough to develop enough visible problems to suggest a full rebuild.

admittedly performance will improve with a new timing set. But it’s not technically needed just yet.

I simply wanted the carb to perform as it should, and thanks to everyone here, it does.

 

Well this has been an interesting and entertaining thread, thanks to all that contributed. I was shocked and disappointed when it was closed the other day, I thought that was wrong, and am glad it got reopened. And thanks to Gary for not disappointing us and disappearing without providing some closure. Now, I have just 1 question, and it doesn't have much to do with this thread, I'm just curious, when you measured the resistance of the secondary windings, how did you do that? What were the 2 points you measured the resistance across?

 

I did a 5 part test.
Craftsman multimeter- too many functions and holes to plug in leads, ohms is the easy one.
20k ohm setting, using 1 decimal point:

test 1: red lead on coil + black lead to coil -
Test 2: reverse of test one
Test 3: red lead to coil + black lead to coil output
Test 4: reverse of test three
Test 5: red lead to coil - black lead to coil output

basically reversing how my meter reads things to verify that my meter is doing okay, and giving myself far too many numbers to remember.

 

That explains it ......rookie. ! LOL

 

You know @tomcat11 , your response make's perfect sense. If the engine is blowing blue smoke, just changing the old timing chain out, to put in a new one, wont solve the issues, with the other worn out components at all.

So yes, it would have made more sense to just do a total rebuild on that engine. Which I am sure Gary was trying to avoid, and to save the old lady some big bucks in the long run.
Thanks from Dennis.

 

Hahahhahahahaahhaa. Rookie? Yes on the WCFB, but now I can tune one like no other.

my mistake as noted by several members was getting the car, listening to the owner describe the previous mechanic that installed pertronix, - I will not name the business-, trusting that the mechanic was competent, and not investigating the pertronix part number off the bat because I would never instal a 12 v negative ground pertronix in a 6 v positive ground system, so I ***umed the other guy wouldn’t have either.
It ran superbly smooth up to 2800 rpm’s with the carb rebuilt and working normal.
Then as per suggestions from a member (Tom maybe) separated the carb linkage and ran each half of carb separately. 2800 before stumble on primaries alone, 3000+ before stumble on secondaries alone.

I made the mistake once again of letting my brain fixate on the carburetor and not the ignition source, on because a pertronix unit as per their Own website trouble page, is in its basic form, a Work or no Work unit.

My failure to double check the previous work led to ten days of bickering back and forth in two different threads, all because my head said carb, and my brain said stop thinking———-.

it took patience by the fellows in the thread that wanted to throttle me with a metric crescent wrench, but they were patient and worked their way through my logic seeking locked in brain cells, and hallelujah I saw the light, and now after two jet changes and simply installing the stock points, the car runs as the hood lord intended.


Nuff said by me.

 

Electronic ignitions are very reliable, thats why ALL new vehicles have them. They also provide a lot of additional benefits. Saying they don't or preferring an older system doesn't change that fact.

Yes, in the 70s,80s,and 90s there were lots of problems with them.......especially when coupled to govt mandated emission controls which complicated problem solving. I remember when people used to carry spare sets of points and condensors......and even resistors and coils in their old cars. Often the weakness of the available spark was a problem, and cars moved from 6 volts to 12 volt systems. Should we have stayed with 6 volts ?

Do you think when you are a thousand miles from home that local parts stores are likely to have the correct components in stock to fix the ignition systems in these old cars? Yes, any system can fail.....and parts may not be available for them...so plan ahead no matter what type of system someone has.

If points and condenser were the perfect ignition system, then why were hot rodders looking for better solutions? They weren't perfect either.

Just did a quick check on a set of points for a 54 Chrysler at the local Autozone and none were in stock. They were available for next day delivery. Didn't see a condenser. The Pertronix weren't in stock either, but could be ordered too.

Guys, just because each of us may prefer a certain type of ignition system doesn't mean the other system is junk.

 

OK, so the 5.15 reading you posted above, that was between the coil + and the coil output? Or between the coil - and the coil output? I'm not trying to set you up or call you out on anything, I'm truly interested in your answer.

Re the "Work or No Work" thing with Pertronix systems, I believe what they mean by that is that those systems don't tend to have intermittent faults, they work fine until they don't work; and when they fail that's it, they don't come back and partially work; when they're dead, they are dead. As opposed to a points ignition system that can sometimes work intermittently, or poorly. When troubleshooting a poorly running system with a Pertonix unit, if the engine runs fine sometimes, but poorly at other times, it's not the Pertronix. In this case it was an incorrect part, it wasn't a system that was failing intermittently it, it's actually surprising it got the engine running at all.

 

Your points are all valid. All I was saying is that on a comparison basis an electronic ignition system isn't necessarily an amazing leap forward in reliability over a point and condenser ignition. Sure points and condenser systems need way more on the maintenance side of things, but if that is done properly at the right mileage intervals, reliability is very high. Easy to go 150,000 miles without ignition troubles. If needed, repairs are usually pretty simple. As with anything these days, parts may needed to be ordered rather than in stock.

I checked my own inventory today. I have 5 sets of points for the dual point 54 Chrysler. Only one condenser though. No pertronix parts in stock ... ever. Common Ford, GM, and Chrysler electronic parts in stock.

 

As far as the Pertronix goes, we put one in a 241 Dodge, in 2004, and after 10,000 miles, the owner left the key on, and burned the unit out. We replaced it, and last I knew it had 26,000 miles. So, there must be good and bad reports, like many products.

 

I think @Moriarity is buying them all up and hoarding them.............

 

Find me something that they have on the shelf and I’ll be impressed.

 

I'm worn out, going to bed. Maybe this should be put to bed also.
The guy thanked everyone , explained his reasoning, and is ready to move on.
I was surprised every one kept trying to help, and I was surprised he took some of the snide remarks and came back for more help.
I was a diagnostic tech from 1962- 2009, sometimes you just need help and hope you get it from someone who cares.

 

Excellently said lostmind. I’m never too proud to ask for help and get bagged on. That’s not a problem, I’m a Seabee, I can handle any mud tossed my way.

mid the car came to me with a points loaded distributor, I wouldn’t have come here for help, but trusting the last mechanics work and the pertronix work or no work philosophy, I failed myself. Turning wrenches since 1984 does not make for a complete idiot, just a stubborn one

 

Yeah, just pokin a little fun your way. Actually it was kind of a back handed way to suggest that others might want to follow your lead......and maybe even buy a few sets of aftermarket points from some of the auto parts stores if necessary.

 

Try to buy a set of cam bearings for a 58 to 74 Ford FE motor….. Them ****ers are made of unobtanium right now

 

This guy says he has 'em for sale.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2349512835...oegqoTjLh9qE6h1Vf29egOYQ==|tkp:Bk9SR-znkceKYg

 

Well, the box doesn’t say F 33 on it, and I just got an email from the CnC motorsports people. I purchased two sets from back in January and they said it’s a nationwide outage and they can’t get any and they refunded me. Which is terrible because I totally need some. Lol.

Just a bit skeptical of this guys bearing box not saying F-33 on the side like mine…

 

Sellers on the bay use "stock pictures" a lot of times. The item description states the part # is F 33. I would send him a message to confirm.

 

That’s normally what I do. But I do have four sets coming from another source that are also on backorder lol just my luck.

 

So, did you get it to run properly?

 

Yes absolutely, I though I spoke about it at length.

my apologies. Pertronix unit didn’t not allow for proper dwell time of the coil in this 6v system, and the carb jet sizes were far too lean when I started in on this job.

removed incorrect pertronix and installed oem dual points, up-jettted the carb after the rebuild, complained a little more, then fixed it. All thanks to the brilliant folk here whom showed patience to me when I was ready to burn the car to the ground.

 

15 pages for a bad Petronix and some jetting...

New Record?

 

Technically the pertronix unit was NOT bad…. It was the incorrect unit for the car, installed by someone else, the car ran better for them after they took it to that mysterious guys shop, the car started very nicely but loaded up because the carb was in need of love, but it did run fine up to certain rpm’s after it was fully warmed up…. Just not a lick of performance after, except when separating primary Venturi from secondary, and performance between the two were extremely different, so that added to my befuddlement of WHY. I don’t just throw parts at a car without knowing WHY, and THAT is why the thread is so exhaustingly long.

 

Well, I’ve been thinking about that since you wrote it. And I am happy to let you know that it doesn’t blow blew smoke out of the left side of the engine anymore because it ran out of brake fluid……

so I’m going to start a new caper for the replacement of the power brake booster system in this 54 Chrysler New Yorker deluxe. I just went through 2 quarts bleeding the system and I never got a solid pedal and then I remembered the smoke and I started it and he smoked like a banshee out of the left side and I looked at the intake manifold and you’re damn right, the vacuum that operates it is right over the last cylinder on the drivers bank, I unscrewed the line I had a friend pump the brakes a couple times, and I got some brake fluid drips so it looks like it’s in for a good old oil change and it’s gonna get some motor oil slept into the rear cylinder of the left Bank, and a brand new brake booster if there is anything in the world available for it that is….

 

I haven't looked at one of those systems since probably the 70s. But, based on my potentially faulty memory, the fluid is most likely due to a master cylinder failure rather than the booster. Hope so,
'cause parts for that are a lot more available and cheaper than boosters. Maybe just a hone and cups even.