Technical 54 WCFB woes and my incompetence

So what did your local carb guru have to say, or did he stand you up??

 

I think as others have said, look at the ignition system.

 

he stood me up because of a honey do list according to his text…. LoL

and Ignition system again?

look at what in particular? I’ve already disproven ignition issues with a primary throttle test that starts stumbling at 2800 rpm’s , then using the secondaries only running the engine smoothly up to 3560 rpm’s before it stumbles.

there’s nothing in the ignition system that changes the way the carburetor flows. At least as far as I know up to this point in my life.

 

I might get sneaky with some drill bits and the old too small jets I removed and experiment…..

 

Might put a fuel pressure gauge on it and make sure nothing funky is going on with fuel delivery when accelerating.

 

If the engine ran fine from the factory with stock jets, why modify them to “fix” a carb issue?

have you introduced additional fuel when the carb supposedly messes up?

 

He can simulate adding a bit of fuel .
I can't think of a way to simulate causing the ignition to perform correctly .

 

The plugs are rich , why would you keep adding fuel. Or the ignition system is in poor shape .

 

I'm not saying the plugs are fouled, but I believe they can get that way in almost no time at all. I've been fooled before.
"But I just replaced 'em!"
If they were fouled though, I think you wouldn't get hardly any RPMs out of it.

 

They are not fouled but they are sooty, to much fuel ? , to little spark ?, to cold of temp ? take your pick.

 

If the Pertronix is just a mag switch, what's controlling the dwell?

 

My experience with 6 volt Pertronix is that they don't play well at all with generators.

Listen to @Moriarity

 

If you watch the videos you can see the spark go away when the engine starts to spudder. Fuel don’t do that!

 

The Petronix folks have this to say about their product

The info sheet. Yep I seen the 12v mentioned
http://www.pertronix.com.au/***ets/pdf/Pertronix_Power_Ground_Voltage_Testing.pdf

just saying
And there is no possible original 6v ballast resistor still there?

 

Read first post. I wrote fuel pressure and volume estimates

 

Welcome to the hamb.

 

Also some electronic ignition systems supposedly don't work as well with old mechanical voltage regulators. Electronic, solid state regulators supply a "cleaner" and more stable power output.

 

Ballast…. No I do not believe so, the battery running voltage is 6.5-6.7 volts. The coil power source tested 6.5 volts while running and while revved.

furthermore, I do not ever remember a ballast resistor in ANY 6volt car I’ve ever owned or worked on. Coil technology was invented long before cars carried 12 volt systems.

someone said there’s a resistor after a quick look at the electrical system, I would kindly call ******** on that. 12v cars use ballast resistors to Drop the coil voltage to six to eight volts. The result of an inline resistor in a six volt system is laughably ridiculous.

Yes the Pertronix peopl spoke clearly about a work no work Exactly as I stated above.
Now having 12v to the pertronix switch is a grand idea! I’m all for it. But not in a car with a 6v battery. And I’ve installed pertronix units in MANY 1960’s Ford cars. ALL those Ford utilize a resistor wire to feed the coil, I don’t use pertronix coils, just like I’ll never put a Mallory coil in anything. I have not had a pertronix unit fail to work with the Stock Ford resistor wire powering the coil.

and as stated last night. Rpm’s don’t lie. There is no failure of the electronic portions of the ignition if certain factors are met.

1: source of AF mixture feeding Primaries Only will ONLY allow the engine to reach right at 2800 rpm before flatline stumble.

2: source of AF mixture Secondary blades Only, 3560 Rpm’s achieved before flatline stumble.

ignition electronics do not care, they will not choose one portion of the carburetor to fail on at one specific rpm, and then allow another part of the carburetor to rev much higher before failing.

and THAT is when my brain told me it was the A/F ratio not being rich enough to properly burn that is causing this carburetor issue.

doesn't that make sense to anyone else?

oops o forgot the picture—- here it is.

 

The engine itself controls how the carburetor flows. If the ignition system is laying down, the carb won't flow fuel. It is 100% dependent on the engine's capabilities to run. If the engine can't pump air for some reason (ignition is one of the reasons), the carb won't flow. All the systems on the engine are interdependent. If one doesn't work correctly, neither will the rest.

 

I expect that the Power/Ground/Voltage/Testing do***ent was written by someone who doesn't know the difference between a resister and a resistor. If it was actually written by one of the engineers who was involved in the design of the Ignitor modules then I'd question the veracity of the rest of the do***ent.

 

Looking at the Pertronix site, they have 3 versions of it. It says that the base version doesn't work with a low resistance coil or reverse polarity but the Pertronix 2 & 3 do work with them. Any possiblity that you might have the base unit?

 

Take a close look at the diagrams below. It is not the coil feed that matters. On a 6 volt system, you can't run the igniter power feed through a ballast resistor as it will cause problems. In your other thread you stated that 6 volt systems (and the '54 New Yorker) didn't have or need ballast resistors. I would suggest that you are wrong about that. As far as I can find there is one. Have you actually checked that the igniter power feed is a direct feed. If it is running through a resistor it could be your problem. Or you could ignore it until you have finished chasing the carburator demons.

 

Dear Jracer, my best female buddy grew up in Scapoise! I met her in Puerto Rico decades ago ! Cool beans!

now may I say, you are backwards in your thinking.

The engine is an air pump. It cannot start by itself because it does not pump air from a standstill. You need the starter to engage to crank the motor over to cause the atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinders to mix the air and fuel, and you need to ignition system to ignite that causing the power level to increase or decrease according to the blades in the Venturis and the jets and metering rods.

the carburetor mixes, the spark plugs give light that brings flame.
The LEANER the af mixture the less efficiently it will burn, that’s the flatline I was getting.
The RICHER the af mixture gets the more of a flatline you will get by popping out the exhaust because there’s not Enough air in the mix to properly burn before the exhaust stroke, and the air in the exhaust mixes with that un burnt fuel and pops it off with the heat and trailing flame of another cylinder finishing its cycle to the exhaust m, causing the exhaust to Pop…

this far flatlined with no popping out the exhaust, it’s telling me it’s too lean in its mixture.

This was proven by last nights rpm test. The Clean running of rpm’s out to 3560 using ONLY the secondary Venturis before failing to gain rpm smoothly after that point, and the Clean smooth rpm gains when ONLY using the primary throttle blades only reaching 2800 rpm’s shows Not an electronic failure, only a Mixture that is too lean to continue burning properly.

my only job now is to get all MATHY like Bill Nye the science guy and calculate the proper jetting, without having to spend all my retirement money. (That’s about 39 bucks on todays market) 8)

and until someone points out something that I missed AND is logical, I’ll have to dink with larger hers for a dinosaur carb impossible to find **** for on a normal daily basis.

regards,

Gary

 

Yes, from his description it is the Pertronix 1 (black wire and black/white wire).

 

Many 12 volt systems run a 6 volt coil. In the first diagram you posted, the purpose of the ballast resistor is to lower the 12 volts from the ignition switch to 6 volts in order to keep the coil from overheating and failing.

 

Yes, but the coil feed is not the issue. Note that the igniter power feed byp***es the ballast resistor. All the speil from Pertronix advises this, whether on 6v or 12v.

 

I have a headache.

 

guys guys guys…. The “igniter” is a simple open or closed switch. Its function is identical to points breakers WITHOUT any moving parts. It’s closed or it’s open.

ignition COILS themselves are what required reduced voltage. NOT the simple solid state magnetically tripped pertronix pickup.

Follow along with me here please- You’re emphasizing coil voltage. YES a 6v coil needs REDUCER inline from a 12 volt system, NOT a six volt system. The inline resistors like Chrysler used from the 60’s on up FIRST appears in 12v battery systems, just like Ford’s that used an inline resistance wire from ignition to coil were First used in their 12 volt vehicles, but I’ve never found ANY in a six volt vehicle. GM uses 12 volt powered coils in their HEI distributors, but reduced voltage to their points system coil powered cars.

I cannot fathom a coil needing 6v reduced to 3 or 4 volts in a 6v vehicle.

read the warning on any standard automotive ignition coil, “must use inline resistor” is a warning because it only takes 6-8 volts for a standard coil to produce 20-30k volts for firing the points. (That’s why the 6v vehicles do not need an inline reducer)

I purchase Internally resisted 12v coils all the time so I can eliminate the inline reducers and the item resistor wires in ford’s because of two reasons:
1: Ford resistor wires carry heat in your dash across the wiring loom out to the firewall plug. From there it’s a standard wire that goes to your coil positive. I always try to eliminate this when it is not needed for a Concours restoration by and listing, the use of an internally resisted coil, that’s reducing the chances of that wire, melting into other wires and causing a fire which has been know to happen.
2: eliminates an ugly ceramic rectangle from the firewall with exposed positive blades.

but here I go on a rant about nothing. I have proven that it is not an electronic break up, causing the car to flat line because it does it at two different specific RPMs, with two different specific sets of air fuel ratio‘s that my friends is not an electronic issue.

 

according to perTronics, yes, but the pertronix igniter is a very delicate magnetically switched phosphorus tripped electronic switch…

It trips Just as efficiently at 6volt as it does on 12 volts.