Thanks Tommy! With the lower corner of the door fitting better, it becomes all the more obvious how poor of a reproduction these outer rocker panels are. The "concave" radius does not match the fender to the front or the quarter to the rear of the rocker. This would have been a good fix using the Wheeling machine with a Go Kart slick, had it been noticed before installation. Matching the lower anvils of the Wheeling machine to the radius on the quarter, this one fits the best. Also notice how it doesn't fit as well in the rocker panel.. At this point I thought I'd try a "portable" version of the Wheeling machine to add a bit more radius to the rocker panel. Built in guide...... After some "wheeling", and some bumping of the leading edge with a door skin hammer: Just to show the comparison, before After:
So appreciative of the detailed photos/tips. Feel like I'm in a metal working class. And that's a good thing. thx!
Thanks for the comments guys Dave, for applying pressure, I started on a creeper and found the casters counter-productive. Once I put the piece of diamond plate on the floor I could get a bit more pressure applied. Rolled it back and forth a few times with pressure applied. Even though it has a guide, by adjusting height location of handle end, you could move anvil's path up and down on the rocker about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. So I worked it front to back and then moved position slightly and repeated. About ten minutes time overall, took longer to make the handles than to use them.
I guess this is really more of a rolling operation and less of a wheeling as it is only using one wheel.. The reproduction panel has rather bulbous radius on outside corners where the factory version is sharper. In watching the movement as I was rolling, what appears to happen is the metal is just relocating and forming sharper creases in the process, similar to this: The shop has a dirty floor and smells like a mixture of paint fumes and ground up steel. My daughter says we should bottle it as perfume or something, but that's another story. So if you're ok with that My new apprentice is 16 and looking to perform similar work on a 57 F100 (his dad's from high school, an old class mate of mine) so it's a good learning experience for him. I don't have to put him up with room and board, so I may have to cut into your pay a little over his....
Missed this part of your response. Two schools of thought on this subject. Some use the English Wheel and pressure applied to add shape to the panel, as you describe. The other is to have the wheel and anvil slightly apart, used similar to a fulcrum effect, where the operator holds the panel and pulls downward/pushes upward to manipulate the shape in the panel. Here's a good discussion on the topic: http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=10337
I think the "pressure" method stretches the metal, but in a very localized area. and with minimal "direction". The "leverage" method is what they refer to as a "controlled flowing".. You'll still see stretching, you can see shrinking, depending on how the forces are applied. But the leverage method will likely provide faster results as you are doing more than just a simple stretch..
More progress today, working on some metal bumping on the drivers quarter, so a profile template was needed... Took a 1-1/2 x48 piece of 19 ga and used the mag brake to fold it, then the bead roller to flatten. Then used the kick shrinker to get it to match the contour of the rear of the door, this will give us a close match to the front half of the quarter... If you shrink too much, no need to change dies, just shrink the rear portion of the template (away from the body) Ends are radiused... Then the factory battery tray (firewall mounted) was dissected to use with the "Factory AC car" parts, in order to mount the battery in the passenger front corner behind the core support. ...and all the parts were media blasted. We have some sheet metal plugs to punch out tomorrow for use on a couple of repairs of thin spots, and then the works will get mocked up on the inner fender for placement, weld the parts together, and off for powder coating. One more tip for those doing mock-up/door fitment without latches, this will hold the door flush with the jamb. (Thanks to Laszlo Nobi for that idea)
Tonight we turned our attention to inner fenders. We've got some items slated for powder coating, and these will get added to the pile. The front edge that bolts outside the grille is showing remnants of water retention... Mountain Dew template Bead details to match the originals..... Bead roller was set up with a backstop die... Skateboard wheel and "rolling" wheel used to add radiused ends.... Grabbed a suitable scrap from the pile and used the sander to make a bead ender tool thingie, used on the treated 6x6 anvil... Clamped and tacked.... More tomorrow......
Glad to help! Well the Wheeling Machine finally has paint! Napa Econo-etch primer.... H/K Pavo Purple and Flo Klear. I tried playing with the camera settings to get it to capture the true color, but it just wasn't happening. It may look blue in the pic, but it's about as close to Chrysler's Plum Crazy as you can get without putting a HEMI under the hood.. Here's the actual color...
While I was finishing up the paint on the English Wheel this evening, Kyle stripped the driver's inner fender. This one has the same issues in the front as well as a spot up top where the flange of the fender had some rust issues we previously repaired.. Looks like our same template will work here as well.. And while I was trimming more rust away, Kyle was working on the passenger side learning the fine art of dressing welds...
Speachless! Well worth ALL the time I have spent following this thread. "honey, what are doing out in the garage so late, on your computer???" Looking at cars, dear." "yeah, right" "what guy look at so many cars on the internet??" "we do!!"
Jake, that's why I don't have a computer in the shop. It's all I can do just to get work accomplished... Thanks for the comments Guys!
While Kyle was working on dressing some welds this evening, I took some time to planish the weld on the driver's fender eyebrow. Here's the previous..... It had a noticeable dip throughout the weld seam. Here's the tool used..... The eyebrow on the passenger side was planished all by hand, and probably has a couple hours of work. The Watervliet planishing hammer made short work of the driver's side, it took all of five minutes time to have it in a comparable state as the passenger side... with the dip all but disappeared Continuing on with more inner fender work, starting on the driver's side.... Back side, full penetration welds..... Staple holes for seal filled... Should get both these finished up Saturday morning and mocked up with the battery tray..
Here's the passenger side with the welds dressed and mocked up to the grille.... While Kyle media blasted the passenger side, I did some finish work on the driver's side. We still had this up at the top to fix... A replacement was made and marked out on the inner fender.. Took a reference measurement to insure any shrinking effects were properly planished out... Ice pick works well in marking the cutout pattern... Trimmed and fitted Tacked in place... Rear side After planishing and dressing the welds, re-checking the reference measurement.... Passenger side complete.... Driver's side complete..... Next task will be to assemble the battery tray and send off the goodies for powder coating.
Robert, This thread is some of the most technical rust repair and panel fitment training I've ever had, and I've been putting junk back on the road for over 45 years. Thank you for taking the time to share things a long time hobbyist has never been shown.
Glad to help! Tonight we worked on fitting the new Gene Smith grille components. It started with the mandatory instructions... To insure the studs didn't move once hand tightened, some thread lock stuff was used... We did find the qty of hardware was short by two each, and after a quick call to Gene Smith, Fred has some on the way for us.. The new grille fits just like the old one, it is VERY tight in the top corners.. To eliminate the paint rub syndrome and other possible front end squeaks from metal on metal, some templates were made so we can do some hammering on the new grille... and keep a consistent distance between. Initial fitment: Where the passenger side fit fairly well initially, the drivers side showed some rocking and gap issue. I initially thought the driver's side piece was mis-shapen, but in placing them side by side they were pretty much a mirror image. Checking the front edge of the opening with a straight edge, the passenger side showed to be good and straight, the driver's side had a depressed area. This likely occurred when some fender shaving and rust repairs were performed, without the luxury of the chrome pieces for fitment. So some relief cuts were made to bring out the low area of the opening... ....for a drastic improvement in the fitment. The surround trim studs did have some alignment issues with the grille. One of these "tweaking" devices is highly recommended to fine tune the fitment..
Beautiful work and guys like you just make it look so easy. This looks like one of those"Oh it's just gonna be a little gap job" and it turns into the Hoover dam project.lol Great job. YRUHOT.Doug
Thanks for the comments Doug.. Today we worked on filling some holes in the battery trays so we could finish the inner fender mock up. Hard to drill out a slot, so we clamped on a plate with a pilot hole to use with the Blue Point sheet metal hole cutter: Plugs..... We tried this same repair in the corners, but the pitting was too far along and did a good job of blowing holes. So, time to back up an punt, let's make some new corners.. Shrinking the tuck.... New corners welded in.... Some of the lines from forming were left to duplicate those from the factory... Gusset bracket added to core support.... Holes located on inner fender.... Stiffener brace and angle bracket bolted in.... Tray bolted to the gusset, and plug welded to the angle bracket.... Battery hold down brackets added.... Got a couple plug welds to grind, media blasting, and these parts are ready for powder coating!
As Kyle media blasted and otherwise prepped parts for powder coating, I turned my attention to the new grille. This looked to be a very accurate reproduction as it fit tightly in the corners exactly as the original did.. In order to do some metal bumping on the grille corners and provide some clearance, which should help eliminate future front end squeaks and paint rubs, we'll need to make an anvil. This piece of pipe looks close to our templates.. Unfortunately our grille shows some interference, so unless we plan on disassembly of a new grille, the anvil will need a specialized shape.. After some drilling, band saw and sanding action, here are the results: This may just work... Working the corners.... Luckily any markings that may occur here will be covered by the surround chrome.. Test fitment shows a nice consistent gap:
Amazing, I learn something every time I open this thread! Thanks for all the time you spend sharing your knowledge and experience. I know I do better work because of it .
The Jalopy Journal
