Well its been almost a year since my first post, feel like i should re introduce myself. Looks like my life has finally slowed down enough I can finally start to work on the pontiac again. Plus the motor's shot, suspension ****s, feel like its time. This car was given to me by my wifes dad right before cancer got em. All I did was put the whitewalls and smoothies on it, put some bags on it, which I hate, probably because I'm a novice at the car stuff and it rides like ****. Not really sure what I should do suspesion wise now. Subframe? IFS mustang II clip? Hell there is not much out there for the pontiacs. Would like to do Pwr Steering so it would be easier for the wife to drive it, being it was her dads car. These are the before pics, its all apart now. Any ideas or suggestions as far as suspension? Or does and donts. Pontiac parts guys? I feel like i have read every freakin post on here as not to ask stupid questions, but its bound to happen so be patient with the FNG!
gorgeous car. there is a guy down the street that has one identical to that-same colors and everything.
I'm still learning a lot about this car. I think its pretty cool, just hopin someone has some suspension or subframe tips. Not looking so good.
I have several hundred Pontiacs from 1955-1981 and much knowledge on interchange and engine/trans options. There is a disc brake upgrade available. a frame clip may not be a bad idea and I am pretty sure the common 1970-1981 Firebird is the best choice as you will have discs, great susp geometry and p steering. I just put a front frame clip on my 61 Pontiac wagon and look forward to using it with all the realted benefits. Engine options abound from 195-601 cubic inches with the Pontiac V-8 so you can build anything from an ecomony deal to a real hot rod to anything in between. The little 287 aint such a bad place to start either depending on what you want from the car. There are trans adaptors out there so you could bolt a later 3 or 4 speed auto behind it, or...301, 316, 347 , 370, 389, 400, 421, 428, 455 cu in and up from there. ...or the little 195 4 cyl which is half of a 389 v-8 if you want milage and something really different. Lot's of head and manifold/carb options too. Pontiacs have great torque and terrific motors. Good luck with it. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
Shot as in blowing smoke? Poor metalurgy back then led to cracked piston rings quite often. New rings without a complete rebuild could suffice. This would let you keep the original hydramatic trans. The early Pontiac V8's have a bolt pattern which prevents an alternative late model trans swap. An adapter from Bendtsen would let you use the original motor with a new trans. Dropping in a late model eng/trans combo will fit, but all mounts will have to be scratch made. The frame is different from the Chevy and all thier kits won't work on a Pontiac frame without modification... build your own anyway. The brake master is mounted low. Relocating a dual master on the firewall means losing the defroster heater. The Bendix or Treadl-vac power booster is a single reservior master and is good for points restoration only. Stock power steering is easy and works real good. You need the pump and bracket. Water pump and crankshaft pulley with the extra groove for the belt. A power steering box and a power steering column. The manual and power steering columns are different. Manual is one piece and the power is two: column and box. A subframe solves alot of issues, but no-one does a Pontiac. A few of us have, but you'll be on your own. No kit and a lot of fabrication work. I went with an 80 Firebird TransAm subframe. I already swapped the eng/trans to late model a few years earlier. I spread my build out over several years of winter rebuild. Bottom line: I love my car and spent a forutne doing so. Ask yourself if this is the car of your dreams. If yes, you won't mind spending the time and money to do it right once. If not... here's my honest opinion: Do a light rebuild on the motor and reuse the original transmission. Get a kingpin rebuild kit and new tie rods and such. (Jamco / Kanter) Sell the bags and lop 1 1/2 coils off the front and some lowering block out back. Search around for the power steering parts. you might find someone parting out a donor. Complete brake rebuild. These thing ride like the living room couch. I'm sure you'll enjoy it once you get to drive it more. I'd love to have that wagon. Trade my 56 Starchief H/T with ya! Bil
Put it back to the first photo. Rebuild the 287 and definitely keep the strong Hydro. Disc brakes would be good. P/S should be readily available from later Ponchos. Dual exhausts. You will be surprised how good those Pontiac engines run when working correctly. And the trans will surprise you with the stout first gear. Like the colors, just do the interior and enjoy the ride.
*****in car. Just drive it! BTW is that rock "gr***" I see? I need to move to Texas, I hate mowing the lawn
Since you're a novice, I'd suggest using the stock Poncho/Chevy suspension with a few upgrades. Unless you're going to pay a shop to clip the frame, you can get in deep doo-doo quickly & then you're REALLY gonna hate the car!!! There's always the safety issue to consider here as well, since most wagons haul family. The Pontiac (Chevy) already has a pretty decent front suspension with A-arms, so I would consider these bolt on upgrades: An aftermarket front disc brake option (esp if they use OEM calipers/ discs) Fatman 2" dropped frt spindle. Eaton can make the new frt coils to further adjust ride height & improve ride quality Lowering blocks, reverse eye leaf springs (Eaton) will get the rear end down. (I plan to use aux air bags over the rear end to allow me to tow if I need to.) If you've got a bit of extra cash, then upgrade the steering, which will help make it feel like a new car. You can add a a Vega steering box with an OEM steering column from the bone-yard (preferably tilt ot tilt/telescope). Maybe a new stg wheel too... IMHO, these are FAR easier upgrades for a novice wrench to tackle than a full front clip. The overall costs will be comparable, since you'll want to engage the services of a professional shop to do the clip alignment & welding.
I've posted this a few times before, here's what I did to my 55. http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garage/BallJointConversion.pdf With using 63 spindles along with the 58 arms and stock 55 springs, it dropped 2" just because of the spindle height differance. Also I figured in higher caster and an anti dive angle into the upper arm mount. And added a disc brake kit, which is also available for the 55 front end from Scarebird. I have an extra set of parts I was going to do to my 41 if your interested. I also left the manual steering intact. This can be done in a weekend without removing any sheetmetal or having to line up a new subframe. I had a camaro subframe here, but the steering box was right at the radiator because of the front steer, the 55 is rear steer-steering behind the control arms..
Nice ride! I'm just doing a rebuild on my '55 Chieftain's front suspension, and some work to the '67 400 engine this winter. I may put Scarebird disc brakes in the front, we'll see how much more braking power the engine work will require.
Very nice looking wagon!If your engine and transmission is in good shape,I wouldn't mess with them.As for the ride height,I would probably opt for a set of dropped spindles and 2"lowering blocks.This would get the car down nicely and not interfere with the ride.I would check for driveshaft clearance through the X member though. The drum brakes I have found to be quite adequate as long as the adjustment is maintained.That and front wheel bearings should be re-packed at least once a year.The outers are the same as 55-57 Chevrolet but the inners are specific to Pontiac(and maybe Buick and Olds). As for the steering,I have found that the trick to easy operation is to have the car moving slightly(either forward or back)before trying to turn the wheel.Makes all the difference in the world. Just my opinion.
scarebird makes a great brake kit and is reasonable. mark is a hamber and has great tech support. i wish mine was a canadian pontiac as they used all chevy parts. when i do mine its gonna get clipped. i have driven stock restored 55' pontiacs and they ****! just my opinion. that wagon is really cool!
I would hesitate at cutting the front suspension off for a Camaro or Firebird clip. I got my front disc set-up from MasterPower Brakes, had Kremer spring make 3 inch drop springs and have blocks in back. Complete engines show up on ebay from time to time and seem to be fairly reasonable, I think 55-59 are a bolt in. Power steering will be tough to find and is usually fairly expensive. Also look into POCI, the Pontiac club, might be a good resource.
SWEET wagon!!! Serious…may as well post the answers to your questions here? IMHO you only have two choices…based on the info provided you can find a pair of lower control arms and start over with the info provided above, brake kits, spindles etc or go with one of your clips. I guess it depends on what you want to use the car for. Me? I had to stub. Speed, braking and handling is the priority. The front sway bar on this TA is Monster. I also break **** while treating the car as it should be treated, so parts availability will be much easier where ever things go bad. Our only track is now across the river in IL. You did not really explain what you mean by not liking the bag setup? handling? steering? the total ride like up and down? smoothness? shocks? This front clip is ’77 TA and track width is perfect. Also installing Eibach springs for another 1-1/2”. The whole front end was left on except the hood, the front stub torched out and the new stub welded in. One car driveway…the good old days We did cut and weld some serious plates in there. The floors were gone so that was easy from the top as well. You will have to cut and redo your front floorboards at the frame members going this route and cut your inner fender wells for clearance over the upper control arms. Remember to keep the pieces cut off to clean up later. You’ll also need a new steering shaft. The radiator will have to go in front of the radiator support with some fabbed brackets. The master cylinder and pedal ***y., including brake switch are from the donor and easy to install. New front floors are ’55 Chevy after the front was installed. The 400ci, 400T and posi rear end are all from the ’77 TA. The rear end was an easy bolt in with lots of tire room though you will need to fabricate two new lower shock plates at the leaves. I removed 4 leaves and have 3” blocks. Had the joy of one single solid launch down in the court up the street and I am quite pleased she ****ing moves…had to turn the wheel a little this and a little that to make her get out of shape, you know, the fun part. Will only get better with the rear sway bar added. I lost my pics with a pc crash and don’t believe I have ever posted a total build thread, have just added to other post like this, and some threads when the major amount of work occurred. I do have all the pics thru the build at work though and need to retrieve them as it seems these are popping up.
thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone. I'm planning on keeping the pontiac 400 motor that was in the car when I got it, along with the turbo 400 ****** that was with it. I'm leaning towards the fat man sub frame hub to hub setup for right now, but that could change tommorrow. I'm sure its not the coolest thing to do, but may be right for how I want the car to handle. When I say I'm a novice, I just mean at car stuff, built several motorcycles over the last 10 years, not that it means much, but I can weld pretty decent and have some overall mechanical and fabrication knowledge, plus i always like a challenge so I'm gonna give it a shot. Do you guys think the fat man kit is overated, underated, overpriced? I have a camaro clip and a TA clip both, which one might be easier to install? with the fatman kit I can keep the big 5 bolt pattern and use my stock rear end. damn I'm ramblin again, told you the silly questions would come out.
the main drawback to these cars is power steering. if you have been fabbing motorcycles you could install a camaro/TA clip. going with the 4.75" bc. give you more choices on wheels vs the 5" bc. i'm not sure what they want for the fatman subframe but i wouldn't pay for one. sounds like injectedA was succesful installing his clip. nice thing about these wagons is you can do whatever you want and all your doing is making them better. good luck and take lots of pic's.
Thought you had original drivetrain still in there. Your only real problem is what to do suspension wise. If you already OWN a Pontiac stub, and you'd have to BUY one from Fatman... I wouldn't spend more money. As far as keeping the same bolt pattern as the rear, don't let that be the deciding factor. The stock rear will be fine for cruising around, but, you won't find wheel cyliders or brake shoes at Pep boys on Sunday if you hurt it. Carry two spares or... get the studs drilled and remounted, or... use uni-lug mags ! Fix one end at a time. If it's laid up for too long you may loose interest. Then I'd have to come down there and haul away one project to make space for your next project. With a little focus, you could be driving it to the HAMB Drags by late August. Keep us posted. Bil
OK injectedA? Got a 69 nova front clip today I'm thinking of using for the pontiac, its a rear stear which I thought might help with some clearence issues around the core support. You have done it, I still got the TA clip too, will the front stear or rear stear be a better setup? Takin the body off tommorrow, should be ready to do some cuttin soon as I see some pics?
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