59-64 Pontiac 4 Speeds

Ok ,,I found out in a post a while back that there were not alot of Pontiac Clutch cars,also that some came with Ford transmissions.. Did they come with Muncie's as well ? Back in the day what was the stronger transmission ? Also for racing how important is a synchronized 1st gear and what does that actually mean ? Would un synco have less parts to break? Thanks


Thats suppose to say 3 speed not 4

 

Four speed transmissions were first available in Pontiacs mid-year in 1960. They used a Borg-Warner T-10 through 1962 and I think partway through 1963, when they changed to the Muncie. You could get them with close or wide ratio gears, the close ratio cars usually had 3.90 or steeper gears in the rear end whiile the wide ratio cars came standard with a 3.42 rear. Those early T-10s had a cast iron case and weren't all that strong - some of the racers back then actually preferred the factory three speed for its durability (My Bonneville was a street racer when it was new; it had only 42,000 miles on it when I bought it, the T-10 had been replaced at least once and the transmission that was in it when I bought it was trashed - I had to replace first, second and third gears. )

The Ford transmission was a three speed, generally referred to as a Dearborn. I'm not sure if it was ever used in big cars but was available in Firebirds and Tempests/Lemans/GTOs. I believe they started using it around 1965 or so.

There were two different three speed transmissions available in the early 60s big cars, a regular duty model for low hp cars and a heavy duty one for Bonnevilles and/or high horsepower cars. I believe both were built by Muncie.

 

I had a '67 GTO that came stock with a Ford 3 speed, but since the bellhousings are different I don't think that will help you for 59-64

 

The Dearborn transmissions used in Pontiacs had a GM bolt pattern, so I believe they probably would bolt right up to a 1964 or earlier bellhousing. Of course, those earlier engines had the starter mounted to the bellhousing.

 

What would the early 9 bolt top cover be?

 

Yeah I meant the bellhousings were different, didn't think about using the old bellhousing with the later trans.

If you are drag racing, a non- synchro is not a big deal, and yes it has less parts to break as long as you don't shift into 1st while rolling. Synchros speed up the gears so that shifting while rolling is easier. Most cars with no 1st synchro expect you to come to a stop before putting it back in 1st, or if you get used to the car you can shift into 1st while rolling as long as you know what RPM matches your rolling speed.

 

ahh ,,ok ,,we use to shift the old farm truck without the clutch sometimes so guess same idea.. Cool thanks

 

i ***ume you mean 9 bolt side cover. thats a borg warner t-10, probably cast iron. super t-10s i think are all aluminum.

 

never ***ume...... it is a 9 bolt TOP cover,,hurst lists it as Heavy Duty 3 speed 1964 fully synchronized 3 speed

 

No, they didn't. Pontiac began using Ford three speeds in 1965, after they found that the non syncro low gear Muncie three speed that the '64 GTOs came with as standard equipment wouldn't hold up to the 389's torque, and the '65 and newer bell housings had both the G.M. and Ford bolt patterns on them. I've had several, and most of the bell housings that came out of four speed cars had plastic plugs in the Ford bolt holes.

 

Also, from 1958-63, Pontiac used the Chevy style Muncie built three speed for light duty applications, and a Borg Warner T-85 three speed with a 9 bolt side cover identical to the T-10 side cover for a heavy duty option.

 

ok, we are talking 3 speeds. the hurst catalog 3 speed transmission I.D. chart lists a 333 trans as a ford trans with 9 bolt top cover, 1st gear synchronized. on their Mastershift 3-speed applications it lists a shifter made for a 1965 Pontiac full size without console. shifter only PN 366 6901 installation kit PN 367 7639. the shifter is listed for other applications including different transmissions, except the installation kits are different. the only other trans usages shown are FOMOCO products. could this trans have been used on other Pontiacs? i don't know except this is what hurst made a shifter for. this info i got from a 1992 catalog. hope this helps.

 

ahh,,so the T-85 is the HD 3 speed and will have a Ford pattern or GM ?

 

just to clarify my above post. the 333 trans was used in the 65 pontiac full size w/o console.

 

How do you identify the 333 ?

334, 335,336, and 339 all have 9 bolt top covers,,iss 333 on the case somewhere ?

 

I know nothing of this subject, I have a customer with a fairly clean 62 full size Pontiac, factory four speed, 4 door sedan, he's going to part it out for his two hardtop. I think the sedan would be so rare it should be restored