I have a 1959 Ford Thunderbird with the original 352 motor and cruise-o-matic trans. The car sat for 15 years prior to me dragging it out of a friends yard and getting it to run again. And it ran again but not for long. Was someone back in the day using Penzoil? I can not believe the amount of crude inside the motor... But should I rebuild the 352 or go to a 390 ? I am on a budget and it's low, aren't we all... I am just not sure what to do at this point. Thanks for your help
Take the motor out, rebearing, have the heads surfaced, look all around, pressure wash the engine bay, hone the cylinders, put it back together.
If you really have that much crude in the engine, then I would be selling the crude to the refineries to make some quality gasoline. If you mean crud then your looking at a rebuild of some sort. You need to be more specific as to how long the engine ran for and what stopped it from running. Oil pressure?
Those old FE's are hard! They will usually take a rering job without boring. I would stick with the original engine if possible. The 352 will take a 390 crank if you want to go bigger. A .050 bore and 390 innards and you're on the road!
bore it .050 over (will take it fine) and use std bore 390 pistons - then all you need is the crank and rods from a 390. also, tap the front bosses under the cam so you can use the later style retaining plate that most FEs use - the early cams are tough to find.
I just rebuilt a 59 361 fe. I know exactly what you mean by crud. It took me most of the winter to clean everything, in my spare time. Just for reference, It will be cheaper to go 390, and save the 352 to rebuild later. Check out my thread " my 59 edsel wagon build". The last couple of pages of my thread will show you what I got into. But for this car I really wanted the vintage engine, so I didnt mind the investment. Hope this helps.
If you can find a running 390 it might be cheaper to go that route. Rebuilding isn't as cheap as it used to be. But if you have to rebuild one anyway I would rebuild the original engine. You got some good heads in the 59 if they have the machined combustion chambers. The early FEs had mechanical cams also with adjustable rocker arms. Just me, but no way would I use that elephantine cast iron intake though.
It's full of sludge because old oil was prone to that. The reason why engines used to need rebuilds far more often than modern ones is largely due to modern oils (OK, I know about Zinc...) being dramatically better than what was used 50+ years ago. It's sludged, but is it worn out? If it were me... Can you do a compression test? Assuming good compression try this: Remove engine from car and put on stand. Remove intake and heads. Check heads over carefully, if they look good take heads to machine shop, have them hot tanked and pressure tested. Either you replace or have the valve stem seals replaced. While that's going on check the bores, if they look good, no taper or noticeable wear, re-ring the pistons, get some plastigage and check the crank and rod bearings. If all looks good, take the engine apart, clean the snot out of it and put it back together. I'd replace the chain and timing gears, water and oil pumps and you should be good to go. Figure a gasket set for an FE is $1-150, another $75 for a water pump, $75 for an oil pump and $75 or so for timing components and you'd have a leak free, good running engine. I had a 58 Bonneville.. same deal, got it running, it smoked, pulled valve covers, sludge city. Turns out the 50k mile car had bearings and cylinder walls within spec... a few hundred bucks and I had a damn fine running engine.
Check and measure everything, starting with the cylinder wall taper. If the block needs to be bored, might as well go through it completely, or replace it with a good running engine if you have access to one. Many engines that had heavy amounts of sludge also were not properly maintained, which led to premature failure. ---John
Like everyone said, clean, check and measure everything first. If it is just cruddy and dirty, put it back together with a set of headers, late model (post '64) cam, and aluminum four barrel intake, and you will have a solid 300 hp, 380 ft-lbs of torque motor. That is probably the best case scenario for your budget considering you should have a very good (flow rate) set of heads there. If the motor needs a bunch of machine work, start looking for a replacement 390 because it will probably me cheaper in the long run to replace it with a later FE. Good Luck
Maybe not the most HAMB compliant thought, but keeping the numbers matching engine ( Or at least being able to return to numbers matching ) might prove desirable sometime in the future. Then again, A bigger, sharply tuned engine might be more responsive and a little more fun in a ~ 2 ton vehicle.
The 390" rebuild kits cost less than the 352". The yards are also full of 361"/391" truck engines which make good cores. The longer crank snouts can make the accessory drive interesting, however. As suggested several times above, just clean it and run it; nothing to lose. I usually add a couple of extra quarts of diesel to the oil. The extra volume is splashed around by the crank and really agitatates the crud out. Do that a couple of oil changes at a high idle for fifteen minutes each and you'll be amazed at what comes out. Don't forget to reverse-flush the radiator and block. Lotsa old mud/crud in there too. jack vines
I'm so tight that I squeak when I walk. I found this on Ebay. A 66 352 from a rebuild factory with all the add on hot rod parts. I paid 1300 for it and sold all the modern streetrod shit bringing the total cost to about 800 bucks and no core charge. A few old school additions and I have a cheap period piece. Cruising at 70 nobody will know. It may take some time to locate a comparable deal so don't get in a hurry. They are out there.
That numbers matching thing is fine for Corvettes and special muscle cars. No body is going to give a shit about a 59 Ford having a numbers matching block. I did not get penalized for a replacement block when I sold this original 4spd SS396 It was a basket case when I got it. It was taken apart when the original engine grenaded That matching numbers thing is way over rated.
Furthermore, most of the "numbers matching" blocks these days match thanks to a deck job and a set of numbering stamps.
Leaded fuel, slobbery carburetors and cheap oil account for the sludge in old engines. Sludge buildup is very common especially if the engine was not driven much and the oil seldom changed.
Now that I have decided my 55 Ford convertible needs to be Y block powered again I wish I never sold the original motor so I could say it still had it even though the rest of the drivetrain would not be original.
Went thorugh the same question two years ago and built a 390. Found out that the pre 63 FE motors have a different cam, main bearings, fuel pump concentric and a few other parts. If you go to a 390 get a 63 or later, the mains are about half the price, you don't have to add the cam thrust plate and change the fuel pump concentric. All the rest of the motor is interchangeable. Parts aren't cheap but car runs great and has plenty of power and torque. Gets 12 mph with a mild cam and 650 cfm carb. The 58 to 60 T Bird looks great makes a good mild custom.
If you can freshen it up without machine work. A new set of rings bearings timing chain & oil pump. I would advise keeping the 352. Engines sludged up for a variety of reasons. short hops where the engine never really get up to operating temp. failure to regularly change oil & filters. Pennzol and Quaker state are black oils and when not frequently changed did make a really gooey black parrifinnly sludge. Engines hardly ever lasted more than 70,000 back before 1963. In 63 allmost all engines where equipped with a PCV system. the PCV scavenged the blowby gasses and that reduced moisture and combustion gasses from contaminating the oil. I would retrofit a PCV on that 59 it dont robb any HP and is very benificial.
Even if it wore out, it should run!!! By getting it running you will also get some idea of the condition of the Cruise O Matic. If they are both shot, a 390 C-6 combo may be the cheapest way to go. That combo was available in trucks up to 76.
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