Did a compression test on the motor in my '48 Ford project and got seriously depressed. 3 cylinders showed 0. Best was 68. Decided to pull the p***enger side head and saw what looked like rust on numbers 2 and 3 (see pictures), two of the cylinders that showed 0 compression. I'm far from a mechanic, but to me that looks like the head gasket may have failed and allowed water to contaminate those combustion chambers. I ran my finger across the top of each cylinder bore and there is no ridge that would normally indicate wear. The cylinder walls do not appear to be scored. I was hoping to get the engine to run without having to rebuild the short block, and focus my initial spending on dropped front and rear suspension, brakes, gl***, etc. The stroked short block would come down the road after I finish paying for college tuition. I'm looking for advice on what the pictures indicate I need to do next. Do I need to pull the engine and re-do the short block or can I get away with just taking a wire brush to the valves and block surface, then maybe bolt on a set of aluminum heads with new head gaskets? Thanks, Dave
Sadly, looks like you need to rebuild it. But remember, college is more important. Education comes first.
There's a possibility that the rust is the result water entering through the intake if it has been sitting up with maybe the hood and air cleaner off. Please don't go with the aluminum heads until you have it up and running good. You would see "0" compression if the valves are rusted and stuck open. Crank it and watch the valves in the rusted cylinders to ensure that they are moving and closing completely. Clean it up and try a new head gasket with the stock head first. Find the source of the water intrusion 1st!
How long has it been sitting? I worked on one a few months. No compression what so ever. Then I threw oil down the cylinders and turned it over for a bit. Did that 3 times or so. Threw the plugs back in and it ran. After oil got through the system I had very good steady compression. Even after 20 hours of run time on it.
But hitchhiker is right. ..if they sit a long time, a valve could stick. But that's easy to check with the intake off
I had one do that once....popped the valves out and hand lapped them back into shape. The bore was not rusty on mine... Afterward I checked compression after running for a few minutes and it was normal again. The reason mine got moisture in it was from a moisture in shop air line....was removing valve springs [OHV engine] and when I was finished, I failed to run the engine to clear moisture out.
And Be aware,,,If you decide to go with alum heads,You will need to replace all studs with longer one..Not a fun job
Look closely for a crack or two from the valve seats to the cylinder bores. I can not tell from the picture but it is the first thing to look for with the flathead. Neal
Forget all the bling factor you want to apply right now. You need to pull that engine and start throwing your money at it or you'll be sitting in your driveway later wondering why it won't make it out to the street.
I recall when I was 20, I had saved $800 working as a stock boy at Grand Union super market. I wanted to use it to rebuild my flatty. But I also needed money for community college. I decided on college with no "conflation" as in those days (1960's) New York State community colleges provided an excellent education. Having a degree can open doors that can lead to higher income. Yes, there are exceptions, but if young folks don't add 'value" to themselves via formal education, the military, vocational school , OJT, apprenticeship programs, etc. their income level will plateau rather quickly. It's just the way our job market works. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/02/11/the-rising-cost-of-not-going-to-college/
If you found rust in the cylinders and have already done a compression test then at the very least you need rings and you may very well have scored the cylinders. I am going to keep saying this and maybe someone will hear it. if just one person does and doesn't manage to trash an otherwise healthy engine I guess that is good enough. "tear down and inspection". If you have an engine of unknown pedigree and it has been setting for a while tear down and inspection only costs you a gasket set unless you get inside and find out that the engine is trashed. here is an example this engine came to me possibly overhauled and having sat under the bench for 40 or so years: That is a rats nest built in the bottom of a piston, there was also surface rust below the rings in that cylinder. Yep the engine is fresh and with a gasket set and a little clean up in the piston and cylinder it will run just fine. If I had just run it at the very least it would have taken that piston out and perhaps the rats nest would have plugged the pickup screen and trashed the rest of the engine for lack of oil pressure.
What ****** said is so true.....that said you've already turned yours and I have also found what Rocky said to be true, the 8ba in my 39 Tudor that I have had for 30 years used to stick a valve every time it sat for more than 3 weeks.....I used to pull the offending valve and guide ,run the correct dell bit theough it by hand to bore out the rust and re***emble ....finally put bronze bushings in the guides to cure it...you MAY be able to free up your valve or valves free possibly stuck rings and run it but that's a big MAYBE...GOOD LUCK let us know how you proceed !
I knew of an A bone with a stock motor that you would have to rock the motor back and forth to break it loose if the car sat for a week. Once you got it freed up it ran like a top. it never did come out of it and I finally told the guy that the only way to cure it was to drive it every day. LOL The wife worked with a guy that bought a '55 Chevy that had set for years. Original low miles (really had low miles belonged to his uncle who died soon after buying the car new) and was barn stored. he was going to throw a battery in it and fire it up, she talked him into letting me pull the pan and rocker covers at the very least. Well the rocker covers first, and I rolled it over by hand with a flywheel turner while the missus watched for me. Didn't get too far, when the first valve didn't close we decided to pull the heads. Several valves stuck either open or partially open. Everything else looked good on top, but when we pulled the pan we found some rust in the bottoms of a couple of cylinders. So some rings and a general clean up and a set of valve springs had him motorin' and cheesin'.
Great point ****** (can I call you that?). Also, you might not feel any wear, and those pictures aren't very clear, but it looks to me like those cylinders are somewhat polished with no sign of crosshatch pattern. Even if there is no block damage and the cylinders are not scored, and the pistons reuseable, a fresh set of rings and a quick hone to the cylinders will go a long way to providing good compression, low blow-by and oil control. The cost for that will be minimal. You should be able to do most of the work yourself, even if you aren't a mechanic. This is pretty basic stuff.
LOL you can tell me anything you want, if you hurt my feelings I'll just stick my tongue at you or if you really hurt my feelings I'll call you a bad name. If I had it apart I would give the crank a look and if it looked good I would ring it and drive it. Maybe lap the valves just to clean them up. it could have a shade tree freshening and on the road in a weekend and it would be a good first lesson in mechanicing. There is a thread on tear down and inspection that is pretty simple made just for beginners if someone takes the time to search it.
Wire brushing is free. Do that to all the surfaces in there and you can see for real what you have. And by wire brushing, I mean down to the iron, not just polishing the top of the rust flakes. After you have the reachable stuff cleaned, see if it will free up the valves. If not soak everything you can squirt with some loose-juice. Some guys use Kroil, some use diesel fuel, some use a mixture of acetone and trans fluid. Then see if it will pop free in a couple days. If parts are still hung up, you'll need to dis***emble to find what's sticking. Clean everything you find, and make sure you keep track of what hole it came out of. After everything is cleaned, re***emble and install some new gaskets. It's worth a try, right?
Thanks for the walk down memory lane, but, that was then this is now. Not everyone needs to go to college, nor should they. As a society we have done a great disservice to generations by this notion.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in! None of the valves appear to be stuck. They all open and close when the engine turns. Yes, the cylinders are polished with no obvious cross hatch. Although I could probably brush off the rust and put new head gaskets on it then see if it fires, that would end up being a band aid and probably not lead to reliability. Looks like a rebuild is in my future. I guess I can take the least expensive course and try to use as many original parts as possible rather than go the whole stroker ***embly route. I've just got to adjust my immediate goals. I just want to get it running reliably enough so I can start driving it.
OK, Here's another good reason to send your kid's to college according to a recent study. "Insist your child go to college: Education is a powerful Alzheimer's deterrent. The more years of formal schooling, the lower the odds. Most Alzheimer's prone: teenage drop outs. For each year of education, your risk of dementia drops 11%, says a recent University of Cambridge study."
That applies to those who don't continue use their minds and makes the ***umption that if someone dropped out of school they will not. The most recent studies have shown that a deterrent to Alzheimer's is continued study whether it is reading or math or what we do. Something to keep the mind active. Got to laugh, the Ol' Man was as sharp as a tack on his death bed, he never went past the 12th grade but did teach automotive electronics and machining at the local community college. Not everyone who never received a degree is a total looser. Back to cars and the advancement in our education, I have considered this at great lengths and after much consternation, it occurs to me that there is only one time in everyone's life that is a good time to pick up a wrench and tear something apart with the intent of repairing it or making it better. If someone asks I may even tell you the conclusion that I have come to.
"If someone asks I may even tell you the conclusion that I have come to." I ( and perhaps others) would like to know your conclusion. Please share.
Hmmm I've been exactly where you are* and in college to boot, back in about '68. From the location of your rust, I think there is an excellent chance that your problems are entirely in the valves, rusty valves/seats/guides. Rust doesn't look real thick there, so I'm thinking just atmospheric moisture drifting in while engine was sitting unemployed. As noted, cleanitup as thoroughly as you can. Cover valley with manifold, grease piston edge to capture crud that goes that way, this will restrict necessary cleaning to chambers and ports while rust flies. Then get a 1 1/8 thin deep socket to turn engine from crank ratchet, rotate to see which valves are stuck, then get your head and a powerful flashlight down in there and see how seat areas of valves and their seats look. If a bit furry but not badly pitted, some fairly simple work can get you going. At this point I would clean away my loose rust and crud and pull all the valve ***emblies (find someone closer than me to borrow the requisite tools) and learn how. Brutal and dirty, requires savage cunning and persistence, especially if using 59A type valves. Keep 'em in order. One at a time, clean and check'em out. If seat areas of valve are sound on they can be lapped with almost no change in clearance. Seats in block are hard inserts, will very likely clean easily. Light lap using the valve and seat in their proper home and you are on your way to more cleaning and actual ***embly. Invest in a gallon of evaporust! This sort of lapping in is not the equivalent of a real valve job, but if seats are properly shaped now and aren't pitted to hell this will get them back in action. If shot, though, you are at a point where complete teardown with real valve job and re-ring is needed, or even a real $$$ rebuild. This is not perfection, but just like keeping your wheels moving in the depression it gets you moving quite well! Remember, HAMB can supply all information... * I bought a used engine for my '48, and it sat in a barn for a couple of years before I needed it. Valves stuck, seats got furry and stuck, no go. Did an Okie valve job with nearly no tools or money, got that thing driving.
I am actually moderately educated, although most of what I know that has been of value to me in my lifetime I learned by bluffing my way into a job. I just don't see that going to college is going to keep you from getting Alzheimer's. I am pretty sure that a good 'LIBeral dosing of Leary's best will help though. I guess that leaves the young guys pretty much screwed because to quote the Moody Blues ". . .Timothy Leary's dead . . ."
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