I am building a 50's traditional hot rod out of my 29 ford coupe. I have been planning on running a 59ab flatty. I was told the motor was good but smoked a little so I was planning a rebuild, well i dropped the block of at the machine shop and got it cleaned and checked and found out it had 2 deadly cracks. So I know a older hotrodder and flatty racer who has enough parts laying around to build an 8ba flatty and I know the major physical difference betweent the 59ab and the 8ba is the 59ab has the built in bell housing and the 8ba doesnt. Well that brings me to my question. I have allready placed my motor mounts and trans mount in my frame and have the frame pretty much tied up and rolling. I used the 59ab motor with a ford 3spd toploader for placing the mounts. I was wondering if I do go with the newer 8ba motor will I have to replace my motor and trans mounts? Im running a topload 3sp trans with the flatty. I just wondering if the 8ba flatty with the stock bellhousing and ford 3spd topload trans is longer or shorter that then 59ab with the 3sp trans or the same? Thanks Billy
you might have issues with your pulleys. the newer motors have longer shafts, but this can be fixed by using the older pumps. there is just one hole that will have to be plugged. (i could be wrong in that the plugging might be needed to be done going the other direction on this swap.) FYI the bell housing, heads/water neck, distributor, & water pumps are your main differences. there is one more or less bolt hole on the intake deck, and 1 water p***age hole in the head surfaces depending on which motor is of topic as is there one more or less water p***age on each of the 2 water pump mounting surfaces. early blocks are a preferred block due to their more era correct factor, but the newer ones came out of the box with more horses. good luck! one more edit, if you change you water pumps on a older block to the newer 8RT you will have to change the generator as well
If you're using truck pumps on the 8ba, all your mounting locations will be the same. LIke Cadillacoffin sez, the pulleys stick out a little further so you may have trouble there. If you're going to install the older pumps on the 8ba block to get around that, you'll need to change the dizzy to the earlier style as well, otherwise, the belts will interfere with the 8ba dizzy...
As for fitting the engine on existing mounts, shouldn't be a problem. Using the merc or truck bellhousing you can use your existing trans. On tthe other end, use 8RT ('48 - '52 truck) water pumps and you're good. I did this with a merc 8CM into a '47 ford and it all worked fine. Ray
Don't understand you comment about the belts interfering with the distributor when using the truck pumps. After all, they were used on the 8RT which is merely the truck version of the 8BA. Other than some models of 8BA's having narrow belt vs the earlier wide belts, I fail to see the problem. Ray
I mean if he's going to install the older pumps(59ab) to avoid the length of the 8rt truck pumps, the belt will interfere with the 8ba dist and he'll need to change to the earlier style dist as well.
I appreciate the help guys, I havent got the water pumps or the generator yet, so I know which ones to get now and I dont have a problem converting to the early dizz also, I kinda of like the look of it better, my opinion only. I allread have a set of block letter edelbrock heads I bought for my 59ab, so good to know about blocking the water hole off and still using my heads also have an original 8ba block letter edelbrock intake for it also. So all i need it the 8rt truck water pumps, the earlier distributor which I have from my 59ab, and the mercury or truck belhousing, how can i tell if its a mercury or truck bellhousing?
Don't think to much into it, build the 8BA short block, use the 59a style cam and front cover.Have the deck preped and plugged for the center water neck heads. Use all the 59a water pumps, distrubutor and generator. In the end you end up with the newer block with the vintage look. Also, alot of 8BA block came with hardened valve seats (read modern lead free pump gas friendly) so check out the block. Also, kick up a truck bell housing and you'll be at the same messurments for the trans mount you already have built. Sorry if I just repeated everything already said, I am running this set up on a motor I am building for a friend right now.
Check out the pumps that speedway sells, wide belt 8rt style with modern bearings and seals. I have never had one go bad as long as I have ran them.
Wow, I should have just put all my thoughts into one post.....check out this for ID info....http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183227&highlight=flathead+bellhousing+id
Wait a minute!!! If you're using the long-snout 8rt pumps you DON'T need to use the 59ab dizzy. If you're using the shorter 59ab pumps to gain a few inches of engine space, then you need to convert your dizzy, crank pulley, gen etc to 59 ab stuff.
ok, so as long as i use the 59ab water pumps and the 59ab dizzy, I will be fine? and have a little extra space up front, correct?
I believe Ford did away with the hardened valve seats beginning sometime in 1951; first they did away with the intake seats and later the exhaust seats. Jim
I plan on turning my 8ba into a 59a by using the old waterpumps, new dizzy and pulleys. I have a nice flathead that I want to use but I like the look of the 59a's as well as them being more appropriate for a mid 40's build. I figure it's the best of both worlds. 110 base HP and an older look.
"Will the firewall have to be recessed to run truck pumps on an 8BA in a Model A? " these guys might be able to answer your questions http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426893&highlight=av8
I had an 8BA in a 1929 Model A with the 8BA distributor and it fit but tight. I hammered on the firewall by the fuel pump to get some clearance. So I guess that I did recess the firewall with a hammer. Run without a mechanical fuel pump may have helped. The fit was tight by the firewall and the radiator. I ran with a mechanical fan. Have since replaced that motor with a 59AB and have more room up front. So the answer would be, probably not if you run an electric fuel pump. An electric fan could give you some room up front. By the way, did I mention it is a tight fit. Neal
will it still be tight fit, using the 59ab water pumps, distributor, and truck bell housing on the 8ba motor
Don't miss the point mentioned above......to use 59A front cover and distributor you need 59A 'short snout' camshaft! Ray
59a blocks had water flow biased to both ends, so water would flow evenly over cylinders and exit center of the head. 8ba's had large holes on the rear of block and water flow was guided over all cylinders and exited at front of head. If you put 59a Heads on an 8ba block wouldnt water flow naturally to the center head exit and not sufficiently over the front cylinders? Been a longtime since i worked on a Flathead so I'm just curious. Thanks
Well like Thuderbirdesq said I think that you have to block off some water p***ages to get it to flow right. There's a lot of people running a combo like...probably more then you'd think. I am going to have to ask the pros when the time comes so I'll have more info on it then.
There are two holes on the engine and 1 on the head that has to be tapped and plugged to prevent leaking. Not sure if that aids in water flow.
I gained about 1 1/2 inches by the radiator when I changed motors. I don't think that the bell housing will make any difference on room. Neal
My friend called my up last night and said he knows where a 21a 85hp motor is and that i could use everything out of my 59ab in that motor and just bore that motor up to the 59ab bore size. Does anyone know if this is a good idea? Also I have found another 59ab locally, the guy wants $600 for it, he was originally asking $800 for the motor and i think I may can get it for $450-$500. He states the motor runs good and is very quiet, and doesnt smoke. The thing is, it isnt in a car, it is in a platform type deal that is running a welder that was built along time ago(very old). He said I can come see it run but the carb needs a rebuild because it keeps flooding out. So im going to take a fresh carb with me saturday and check it out. Im also able to take the heads off and check for cracks as well, so im going to take some scotch brite pads and some wd-40 and a very good flash light, is there anything else anyone could suggest for me to try and check for cracks or a good way to check to see if the motor is a good one? One more thing is, does that seem like a fair price for a 59ab if it is in deed a good motor? I was planning on building a flatty to stick into my coupe but if this one is a good one and it checks out good, then I may just run it for a while till I decide what direction i want to go with the motor and I could save up some more $$, does this seem like a smart idea?
I ve got a good machine shop tha deals with flattys, but not sure if this guy is up for that, it may be a deal of I check it the best I can then I buy it. not sure yet though
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