I am trying to build a flathead full race for my 30 ford pickup. I want to build a flathead for my truck that will get me into the low 14s in the 1/4. which block style should I use and any engine combos that are proven to make about 200hp. which is better?
A late ('52-'53) Mercury 255 was factory rated at 125 horse. That would be the shortest distance to 200 horsepower. You'd have the much-desired Mercury 4" stroke as well.
8BAs have the best cooling passage design when compared to the earlier flatheads, so if you are planning on approaching 200hp, especially running on the street, this is your best bet. Also, the 8BA has a more "modern" distributor. Yes you can upgrade the 59AB but why not start with the best. While not impossible, you're going to have to do some work to get 200HP. You'll probably want to go to at least 284 cid (3-5/16" bore X 4-1/8" stroke) and 1.6" valves, plus porting and relieving the block will be a must. If you do not already have it I highly recommend Joe Abbin's 2nd book, "Flathead Ford V-8 Performance Handbook" and if you can find his first, "Blown Flathead", also a useful source even for normally aspirated applications. And read Bored&Stroked's thread in this forum "Technical Flathead Relieving for High Performance Flow", another excellent source. Good luck and keep us posted . . .
14 seconds in the quarter is going to take a very light car with any flathead. 200 horse normally aspirated is not a very street-able engine. I Believe you are gonna' need more than 200 to get to low 14's on gas. My personal opinion is: you need to think supercharger. Look into H&H or Joe Abbin. Good Luck.
It is going into a 1930 model a pickup. As of now I need a cab, bed and flathead. I really want this thing to Go like hell for a flathead powered truck. I plan for the flathead to have a potvin eliminator cam, scat 304ci. rotating assemby with about 10:0:1 compression ratio, and about 1.75 inch valves any suggestions for good intakes and heads?? 3x2's?
Do some research on the flathead motor. Flatheads are good motors but have their limits. Sounds like you want the performance of a newer overhead valve motor therefore the flathead may not be for you. I question the economic feasiblity of 304 cubic inch and 10 to 1 compression. Neal
One other thing to consider. I believe the early flatheads are slightly shorter overall than the '49-'53's and are a bit easier to fit in a Model A.
I have a stock 59ab in my woodie im not new to flatheads I just have almost no expirience in hot rodding'em
. You will need to recess the firewall on your A Or tinker with waterpump and pulley combos to squeeze the 49-53 block in there. It is tight without a firewall recess (tight but not impossible). I'm not sure how you are going to squeeze 1.75 valves in there but Probably the best guidance a person could have comes in the form of 2 books. Links: Joe Abbin's Flathead Performance Handbook Joe's Tech Tips and George McNicholl's How To Build A Flathead Ford V8 Both of these books cover porting and relieving of the block. And in order to garner 200+ hp, you will need to do some creative carving. In Abbin's book, he walks you thru the process of building a 217hp/268 ft lb 3X2 naturally aspirated engine. Max hp was reached at 5000 rpm and the torque curve came in early and was fairly flat (Good!) with peak torque at 3100 rpm. Abbin is well versed in building both naturally aspirated and blown engines and the resulting 217hp/268ft tq came from many years of experience in playing with different combos of cam/block/carburetion etc. -He has a proven recipe. The write up and youtube dyno video were of a good friends engine, Bill Boomer. The Boomer engine Naturally Aspirated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndfyT6FWgV4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL And with a blower: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PCy-uXwOVw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL Abbin's own Blown Flathead run's in the 12's in a heavier bodied 34 Tudor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8x47lRNslc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhLcHV3iVNU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL A guy should also note that Joe's 12.5 runs were made with an automatic which surely slows a flathead down by robbing around 30 hp. Good Luck on your Build and Stay Flat moe .
59AB with a 4" or over stroke crank, Bore to the maximum safe amount your block will take after sonic checking, four carbs, a Potvin camshaft, 8BA guides and valves, Johnson lifters, Good solid pressure oil pump, Magneto with advance about 12' worth, good aftermarket aluminum heads from Edelbrock and expect it to cost a shitload. Or rebuild a nice solid 59ab using simple stuff and enjoy it for it's flathead qualities. If you really want to go fast build a solid .485-.500 inch lift SBC with some good heads, induction, and exhaust and put hood sides on it for about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost and have alot more horespower. Good Luck and have fun, Tim
Someone should have told the person that put a sbc and 700r4 in my 55 F100, But it sure goes good ! LOL Late model flathead for sure, would be the best bet!
It's hard to disagree with that but there are always those that think the ultimate engine is one that starts with the cheapest and most poorly cast block, wears the cam lobs off at 20,000 miles and burns oil from day one. But no where did I read that you were building a lowly 350. I would also agree that Chev engines belong in chev bodies where they look at home with blue smoke encapsulating the rear bumper. As far as valves go, things are getting tight when you get into the 1.6 valve. BTW, there are those that will say that the 1.6 valves are "Chev" but the truth is that GM stole the valve design directly from Ford (Flatheads) with little more than a slight increase in valve diameter. The fact that GM made millions of them in 1.6 diameter just means that the Flathead crowd has to buy a part that comes with a GM part number irregardless of the name Manley StreetFlo on the box. In researching your engine, look to quality parts distributers like Red's Header's (link), there are other distributors but none are more approachable then the guys at Red's or Joe Abbin himself. Between those two fella's, a guy will not get screwed when the after market adjustable lifters fail because someone sold you cheap offshore copies. .
. From Abbin's (highly recommended) Book : All images copyright Joe Abbin, Roadrunner Engineering. In reading Joe's book you will find that you don't have to Buy expensive aftermarket heads or Overbore to the max to make 200+ hp. What will be needed is careful attention to porting and relieving and for that you'll have to rely on the pics and text in the Abbin or McNicholl books. moe . .
. One last thing, If you go with a Scat crank, opt for the balanced assembly rather than trying to save a few $ on a non balanced crank. Scat cranks are known for needing your local machinest to put in 4 or 6 hours of shop time to bring the slightly cheaper non balanced crank into line. The few extra $$ a guy spends on the pre balanced assembly will save you hundreds of $$ in local machining. .
^^^ Above Average grammar/spelling for a chevy guy Even though an oil burning 350 will fit between the frame rails, most Ford owners would rather keep their rear bumpers soot free hence the propensity to put a quality old Ford engine in a Quality Ford Bodied Car. On the other hand, if GM would have made at least 1 quality product in the last 100 years we would all be putting oil burning 350's in 1930's Chev cars. .
I think you misunderstood my intent. I have a Banger powered car, a flathead powered car, and about to have a Chrysler powered, and two SBC powered cars. They are all fun and I drive them all right to their limits. Yes, I have Chevies in a Ford. I don't know how much experience you have with any of this stuff so I'm just giving an opinion. But I think you are heading into a huge costly dissapointment for my perceived tone of your post. Flatheads are great engines within their limitations no question. But unless you want to rebuild one and go through the heartache of finding and fixing numerous cracked blocks, breakdowns and loss of driving time you better build it mild. The point is you can get tons of more reliable horsepower out of another engine, if you really want the Wow factor build a Chrysler and go really fast for about similar cash as you are talking about spending. They love blowers and need little to make them ready for one. Tim
I'm a 59AB guy. Can't help it. My roadster engine is getting 3 3/8 bore with Ross pistons and a 4 1/8 Scat crank. 1,6 intake valves, 400 jr cam, ported and relieved block. Eddie Meyer heads, Thickstun PM7 intake and new Strombergs. Will use a modified original distributor from Bubba with Pertronix internal. Should move the old rig a bit better than before, I hope. Will see later this summer. (yes, it's a piston ring in the outer hole ) Tested the heads and intake before disassembling (old different carbs)
That's like saying old Henry stole the sidevalve flathead V8 design from Cadillac and while he was at it he stole Henry LeLands name! Mr. Ford took over Lincoln in 1922 and continued to use the Flathead V8 that LeLand designed until 1932. Ford made it cheap and dependable but LeLand had made many successful V8s long before Henry Ford, and undoubtedly influenced the Ford V8 design.
Like my machinist kept telling me when I had him build my bottom end of my 8ba, "Kid, just run a blower if you want more than 175hp". I stuck with carbs, that setup was expensive enough...
Well, Flatdog ran his 3,000 pound, fully streetable flathead '34 down to 14 flat before losing patience and supercharging it into the 12's. That was a helluva developed engine, but you need a lot less if weight can be kept to 2,000. Reasonably similar results were posted in the fifties for light rods. Almost all older race engines were 59's or 99's due to allegedly stronger mains and certainly stronger rod system, plus a MUCH better starting point in ignition. Some of the differences may not matter depending on what you plan to replace with aftermarket stuff. All innards can be interchanged '39-48 with only minoe tricks, and the much more compact 59 front parts go right on an 8BA...actual block choice can be made separately from external parts depending on what good blocks you find. I suspect HP is somewhat misleading due to extremely fat low end torque curve...my belief is that flathead produced at the drags beyond their HP numbers in terms of the conventional formula. Last flathead to win top eliminator in NHRA nats was in around 1956, defeating hemis. The winning Rice car was built to take hemi or flathead and was campaigned with the flathead for ET (and for the nationals), the hemi for top speed...I think this partially relates to that torque curve.
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