62-65 Superstock Mopars picture thread..

Who was it that said the GTO started the muscle car area , this is all the proof how wrong that statement was! These cars would have ate a GTO as an appetizer and then looked for a main course.

 

I think you can blame it on Jim Wangers and the magazines for marketing, I mean articles about, the GTO as the first.

 

Hate to break it to you but the MW's weren't borrowed from the full size line..Hence, they weren't muscle cars, by description.

 

I hate to break it to YOU, but the car pictured was a MID size car that Chrysler corporation did to some of the Plymouth and Dodge models starting in 1962. HENCE, they fit same definition as used to classify the GTO as a muscle car!

Edit: See below supporting link
https://www.motortrend.com/features/1962-plymouth-fury-max-wedge-413-muscle-car/

 

Okay, I've read all that stuff before. The writer is stretching to make a point, but I ask you ,...did the 413 2x4 MW come from the full size line or did it not?
Further muddying the water..The 57 AMC Rebel had a big car engine in an intermediate body, and was very fast in it's day. Same goes for the 49-50 Olds 88, that used the 303 from the the 98 line.

 

The 413 was used prior in full size line, even some with long cross ram manifold that moved each of the 2x4's over beyond the outside of each valve cover. HOWEVER the were not MW heads that only started in 1962 with the cars we’ve been talking about. What makes the MW engines was head intake ports so big that the only manifold that would cover the ports was that 2x4 short ram intake manifold that you see in pictures, I had a 426 max wedge that I once set a single 4 intake off a 440 on to see if a after market intake could be used, NO WAY it not only didn’t cover the intake ports of MW heads, the top of ports in heads were 1/4 to 3/8” above top edge of 440 manifold. The MW engines had different deck height than previous 413 engines (IIRC), different cam, higher compression ratios, redesigned exhaust manifold and probably few other changes I'm leaving out. BUT what does that all matter, the Pontiac 389 came from the full size line before the GTO, did it not?

You are correct about cars like AMC rebel and early Olds cars, plus even Pontiac had tri-power setups in late 50’s and put a 421 ci.in. with 2x4's engine in the Catalina & Ventura line, that in 2 door version they might have been little smaller than the Bonneville (not sure). Hell even Ford came out with a 427 in the mid size Fairlane in ’64 called the thunder bolt, how did the ’64 GTO out do it as the first muscle car even in same year? After all those mentioned cars how in the hell did anybody came up with the GTO started the muscle car area is beyond me. But no question that using argument often use to justify the GTO as being first muscle car, being a big block engine in a mid size body, the argument ends when you consider the down sized 1962 mid size Plymouth & Dodges with the MW engines that was not only about same size and weight, they also had almost 100 more HP, better ratio transmissions. Not to forget the same body cars in 1963 was available with the 426 Max wedge that where probably powerful enough to blow a GTO over on it's top when they went by it .