Forgive me, but as my description says, I'm an FNG and I'm working on my first real modified car. I'm swapping a non-traditional engine/transmission into my '68 Pontiac Superior ambulance and am having frame clearance concerns. Hoping someone on here would have experience modifying the frame crossmember for clearance. The engine is siting about 5" too high in the engine bay in my first test-fitting. I can create more room to lower it by modifying the oil pan some, but it still won't give me all the space I'll likely need. I'm not sure I'm using the right terminology, but the crossmember that's also the engine cradle (spans the width of the frame rails and serves as the front suspension arm mount) looks to be made of an upper and lower channel clamshelled together. If I cut and remove the upper half of that box section, can I weld in additional reinforcement steel beneath it to maintain some of the original strength of the area? Here are pics to help illustrate: This one shows how much further I need the engine to drop down And I need the front pulley to sit just above that swaybar in the below picture: Is is OK to cut and weld a modified front crossmember? or am I asking for major trouble if I do it? Thanks in advance for any advice/input.
What the heck engine and trans is that? I don't recognize the oil pan or the bellhousing configuration From the looks of it your crossmember needs more removed than would stay, which is not good. But pics can be deceiving too. Ever considered enlarging the trans tunnel and moving the trans up to match where the engine wants to sit? Lotta room to be found on that car which I just realized is OT. Doh! Good luck
It would help if you stated what engine and trans that you are trying to put in the Pontiac. The trans doesn't appear to be GM, at least any I recognize. Front sump? Rear sump? On the engine's pan. As the Dude said, you may be able to notch and box the crossmember but as Shifty said, to me it doesn't look like you have enough crossmember to be able to cut that much out of it. <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
BTW a popular modification for drag cars is to cut the center out of the crossmember entirely, plate the ends, and run a piece of rollbar tubing across. Quite strong and allows oil pans to come off without lifting the motor. You could certainly do something similar and even use tubing with a bend to clear the oddball motor.
I'm actually a bit afraid to say: it's not always too well received and since I'm the FNG here I don't want one of my first posts to ostracize me... And I don't know the personality of this forum yet... But since you asked, it's an Isuzu 4BD2T from a box truck and the tranny is also from the truck-- a Jatco JR403E More pics of what I've done so far are here: http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/Spank226 The sump is in the back AFAIK, so as I said I can chop a bit out of that oil pan. I've already taken out much of the trans tunnel since it was rusting out anyway, so between raising the trans a bit more, trimming the oil pan and notching the crossmember, I think I can get them to match up. As I said, that crossmember has a seam on it and is 2 channels welded together. I think just by removing the top half and boxing it and/or reinforcing it beneath I can get the desired clearance. My next test is to just pull the pan off and then see how much closer I can get. I've got a tubing bender, so I could probably do a combination of boxing what remains and then adding cross tubes. Thanks for the input and the dose of courage it offers me!
No... What he is saying is that this is a PRE-1964 traditional hotrod forum. The swap you are attempting certainly will require some creativity and inginuity which is part of the true hot rod spirit. Your best bet since you openly admit that you aren't aware of the personality of this forum is to lay low, make a introduction if you haven't already and remember that the search button is your friend. A lot of your questions may have been answered somewhere on here in one way shape or form... Good luck w/ your swap! Joe
That's an odd choice but I guess I could see why, since you could pull a 90 foot house trailer and get 25 MPG down the highway at the same time. Wouldn't it make more sense to weld a tubing crossmember center on, then cut out the center, so nothing moves?
Thanks and I appreciate that pre-64 clarification. My first posts a year or so ago were about my '51 Cadillac Ambulance and my thoughts of doing the same engine swap, but it was all original and I didn't want to harm something another person would appreciate as-is. So I sold it for a loss and got the abandoned Pontiac that had suffered an engine bay fire and had no engine or tranny. Sorta giving new life to something left for dead. I didn't consider the Pontiac's DOM before posting. Sorry about that. I'll do some more searching and lurking, too. RustyNY-- I think I'm following what you're saying. Before cutting anything, I'll see how I can weld in some supports and contemplate if any could even just simply be left in there after I get the needed clearance.
How many people on here have pre-64 engines in their car.... How many 350's 302's.... Atleast my 1981 El Cam daily has a '64 283
I don't know how many times it's been brought up about the pre 64 thing. Pre-64 is for the classified section and somehow magically spilled over to the main board. The car is not a traditional hot rod due to the fact it is an Ambulance. Sorry ambulances and hearses are cool but not traditional fodder. The engine/tranny combo is not traditional either.... but what he is doing can be remedied by the vast knowledge base here. If it were mine I'd look into what it would take to make another crossmember ahead of where you have the stock one. As mentioned .134 roll bar tubing 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" will work fine as well as 1/8" wall rec tubing. Cut it, fit it, weld it in and remove the old one. Make sure that you take in concideration the steering arms through their entire lock to lock sweep as well as up and down movement with suspension extension and compression. Now you have an opening between the rails that you can sink the motor in as far as you want and then fab up some motor mounts to your liking. As mentioned you get full access to the pan to drop it, easy oil filter changes and a cleaner look. Sounds like the motor is a torque monster.....just what that big old boat would need! Have fun, go for it, slam the hood shut and tell 'em its a 400 if it bothers you, if it don't then tell 'em what it is and who really cares anyways?
Agree with Curly on the pre-64 thing. If the moderators feel it is too far from the 'hot-rod' vein you will know it. Even small diesels can be pretty heavy so what you do to the front crossmember could be critical. The drag-race tubing idea could be workable but due to weight of engine, weight of car and being a driver, don't skimp on what you put back in. Even an extra 50 pounds of iron won't be noticed when you are done. .
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