Technical 6k or more for a 4 banger rebuild!?

I’m being quoted 6k or more for a model A engine rebuild short block. I’ve got a block I’d like to have built for a project. Is this what you all have ran into? Insanity

 

Consider that most machine shops will only want to use your block (and maybe the crankshaft after they have done everything they can to it), 6K sounds about right for everything inside being replaced or massaged. The actual build time is about the same if they install all new parts, or install all your old parts, after they massaged them. Its the massaging time that makes up the difference, and most shops can't assume your parts are still good. They need to magnaflux for cracks, measure, and machine them before they will install them into your block.

 

At $75 per hour and up the bill tallies up quickly. And you’ll probably opt for some upgrades along the way as well. We went through the same thing with a flathead v8 a while back and the final bill was a heart stopper. The parts we supplied didn’t play well together requiring assembly, disassembly, additional machine work and reassembly. All the extra time at $75/hr on top of the normal work.
If your engine is a 90 year old untouched example, it could get ugly. If it’s a rebuild that just needs freshening you might luck out.
If you’re looking for a stock rebuild , it might be better to watch for a running engine from a restoration that got hot rodded. I see them regularly. I’ve seen entire Model A drivetrains for $1500-3000. But you’ll need to be sure it’s ok before you hand over the $$.

 

The most money you can spend to go slow....
I don't know what all is included in that short block build?
If you insert for modern mains, it is align boring and modifying the block for thrust washers
deck the block
weld on counterbalance crank weights and dynamic balance...plus turn rod and main journals
turn the slinger for modern rear main and install new rear main seal
modern insert dipper rods is $750
do the cylinder bores need sleeved they for sure will need bored and honed....
new pistons and rings...rings gapped and fitted
Cam....that's a tuff one now days...new crank and cam timing gear
new oil pump/distributor drive
new adjustable lifters, valves and valve springs....and enlarged intakes?
hardened valve seats installed
new oil pump
assembly labor....there is $3500-$4000 parts and machining easily and more if you took it to them dirty and assembled
and you still have three main bearing engine...I run the snot out of them inserted with a Sterling flywheel
Bertz has a 5 main bearing short block....for $7K or $4500 for a do-it-yourself kit...which I have done
either way...it is an investment of love

 

I have way more money in rebuilding banger motors than I do in other more recent motors. Babbit bearings are becoming a lost art. Many rebuilds include insert bearings and pressure oil. After getting the short block done the way you want you can put an overhead conversion on it for another 5 or 6K. I would strongly recommend doing some research on the Ford Barn and the Banger meet here on the HAMB. Lots of good advice on both places. It pays to spend some time and decide what you really want to invest in.

 

Building these old motors can be a pain in the neck, and in the pocket! As stated above, babbitt is nearly a lost art, and the custom mods take tons of time. I care not to admit how much I have invested in going slow… but you’ll never catch me runnin a chebby!

 

Honestly 6k is a starting point. You can dig a 15-20k hole rear quick with and ohv and upgrades.

These engines are nearing 100 years old. Every piece needs some massaging and reconditioned.

I was about your age when I had my first heart attack about the costs of bangers....now I'm one of few commercial operations assembling ford 4 and 8 cylinder engines professionally in north west Washington...funny how that worked out...

 

Rarer motors from the same era are well into 5 figures.

Respect to anyone keeping prewar motors running.

 

In the late 90s I was getting &2500-3000 for a complete build including new Babbitt and balance with all new parts. Add in inflation and you’re there. And now that engine is another 25 years old. I cringe at what sbc parts cost now.

 

I was quoted $12K yesterday to rebuild my '55 322. I have no doubt the builder is worth every dime. I'm just in sticker shock..

Larry

 

6K for an A engine is probably on the cheap side, I've heard quotes higher than that. There's tons of rebuilt A engines around that never got more than a couple hundred parade miles on them. If you can find one with receipts, that's a route to look into.

 

Valve in block engines cost a lot, it could end up going higher than your estimate.

 

For $6K, sign me up. That is a bargain in todays market. I just finished a $13K+ FE build last year, and my shop rate is a lot less than most as it is a side gig for me. My day job cranks out 40 remanufactured diesels a day. The big yellow 15 liter industrial engines are approaching $50K for a full rebuild on a 20 year old unit.

 

It takes leather balls to play Rugby, and it takes a bucket full of money to pursue such endeavors with Banger's and Flathead's !
Everyone's results may vary greatly!

​

 

I've rebuilt 2 Model A bangers and 1 B engine over the years and that doesn't surprise me, look up a Donovan block , last I saw was $6500. I've had two hopped up bangers, 1 A and the B engine, High compression head, Mallory distributor, down draft intake and Holley 94, V8 transmission and they're still a 50-55 mph car without an overdrive. I'm a fan but enjoy getting out and cruising the back roads. I'm building a 29 roadster pickup with an A engine set up that way now. The picture is the chassis for the roadster pickup, stock block , Snyder's 5:5 to 1 head, old Mallory dual point , Burns intake with a Holley 94 and the flathead short block.
You might check with H&H they build Model A engines, a branch also builds flathead V8, got one of them in my 30 Sport Coupe and the short block was $4000 about 5 years ago but great work on it.

 

That's close to what a paid for a "touring" motor with inserts and a high compression head. According to one builder I talked to you, have to inspect 12 blocks to get a good one. If you're talking B blocks, it's 25 to one! You forgot to add that there's a 9 month wait for an engine rebuild.

 

Rebuild cost is why I abandoned the straight 8 idea for one of my cars. Babbit bearing work has limited places where it is being done. My local go-to machine shop has a banger motor crate on hand to ship "good" blocks to his Babbit guy in Ohio. Shipping charges each way add to the cost. $6K not out of the ordinary.

 

Sounds right... I do a lot of miles and was pricing a quality rebuild, its up there. The neighbors doing a Burtz (with a Miller ohv), when I compare cost of a Burts vs rebuilding its about a wash.

 

What would it have cost to do this in 1955-60 , I'm guessing it would have been far less than $600 .

 

would anyone have spent that much on a car you could buy for $25?

 

oh...it cost $175 for a remanufactured A engine in 1958. Freight was probably not included.

 

Newest engine listed is 56

that ford banger block was around $2100 in todays $$$$$

 

Changing the question a bit. The Burtz block is a new casting of the A, but with major internal improvements that make it much more reliable and a better base for hop up.
You will probably spend $7k and up, but have more power and reliability. A lot of Model A guys are going this route.

 

They can charge whatever, because there's no competition.

I'd give you the world's best A/T guy, but he's backed up a year and trying to retire.

jack vines

 

That's the route a couple of my buddies went. They're pretty happy with the Burtz.

 

I have a Burtz block needing assembly. Just lacking energy on my part.

 

I've been mostly happy with my Bertz block build. It takes a lot of prep and cleaning and then even more cleaning to get all the sand out of the coolant passages. Then some additional prep and cleaning and even more cleaning. It also uses regular machine screw threads for oil passage plugs....not tapered threads for interference fit as you would expect for sealing liquid under pressure. I've played hell plugging the oil galley passage at the back of the block...the new assembly guidance is to use a button head fastener with a copper washer and sealant...instead of the original approach...a hex socket set screw....
But I also love my real Henry B engines but the machining is getting more and more difficult to source

 

Weird the plugs aren't pipe thread. What thread are they?
As for the sand in the water jackets, that's just like factory! I guess it's better to have to clean it yourself than pay Burtz for that extra labour.

 

It's called "Stupid Money" for a reason!

 

The big question is what are your plains for your car in the end? Does your engine run now?