I have a flathead under my bench that I'm hoping to put into my '31 TV8 roadster. I've been looking at water pumps and what I have leaves me a bit confused. From what I've read/seen, the '49 and up pumps for cars haven't got a mounting tab on them, so guys are using truck pumps when putting them in Model As. The differences are obvious when I see pics in the catalogs. The thing is, when I checked the pumps on my engine this evening, they don't look like either the auto or the truck pumps - they have mounting tabs (Woo hoo! Don't have to buy new ones to use for mock up) but they are located higher on the pump than what I see in catalogs when I look at truck pumps (Boo! They'll set the engine in the frame about an inch or three lower than the new pumps I'll eventually buy). So what the heck am I dealing with here? Sorry for the poor picture but the engine is still under a bench and likely won't be out in the open for another month or two. My pump - the mount is up around the pulley Generic truck pump off internet, tab is about even with the top of the outlet. (Inlet?). Engine says 8BA on the head and the dizzy comes off the side like I'd expect. That's about the extent of my knowledge of what this engine is. No idea what it came out of. The plan is still to buy new truck pumps and use those but I'm curious if these pumps give a clue as to what this engine came out of.
Looks like '49-'50 Merc pumps to me. I had an engine with these and I made some spacers from 2" square tube to use them on my engine test stand (that is set up for the early Ford or late Ford truck pumps). Everything worked out fine. You may have just lucked out and got a Merc engine.! With that combination of parts, its unlikely, though.
Your pumps are narrow belt '50-'51 Mercury. A spacer can be used to put the engine at the same height as with the '48-'52 truck pumps with the lower mount ears. The Merc pump arm mount holes are 1" wider overall than the truck mounts.
If you're planning on using the Mercury pumps (as seen in your picture) you'll have to get them rebuilt by someone like Skip Haney......the Mercury pumps have not to date been reproduced. The 8RT truck pumps are the normal type used for your application. However, keep in mind that the 8RT pumps come only with wide belt pulleys. This means the rest of the belt system must also be wide belt (crankshaft pulley, fan pulley, and generator pulley). The 49 Mercury pumps had the wide pulleys. The 50-51 Merc pumps had the same body but used the narrow pulleys.......and all flathead narrow belt pumps had the offset pulleys so that the belts could cross over each other. For this reason, most guys opt for the wide belt setup.
Yep I have a 49 merc motor and I was doing Some r&d when I looked twice at how wide they were compared to my other 59a sitting next to it. Taller and wider.
Great info! Thanks for the education. I doubt anything else on the engine is Mercury but we'll see. One side(?) does have the fancy schmancy acorn nut covers on the head bolts but that's it for dress up stuff.
The water flow jacket is different. There is an extra water jacket hole in the '49-up blocks and at the top of the water pumps. The belt pulley is wider which is a good thing for voltage conversions. Not to mention the bolt patterns. Here is a pic of my 8BA block. Notice the water pump bolt pattern and the water jacket holes. Go to the Vanpelt site. There you can see a tutorial.
Pictures of the complete engine will ID the intake, oil pan, clutch/flywheel as car, truck or Mercury. The 8BA heads were used on '49-'51 Ford cars and some trucks. Measuring the stroke is the only sure way to know whether the crank is Ford or Mercury.
Flathead Dave - I'm not sure what you mean. All of the parts in question are for '49 and up. I'm fine using wide belts though, I plan on a 12volt conversion using an alternator that looks like a generator. '46 Caddy - it's a 1931 Model A chassis with a '27 Model T body, I was multi-taskng when I typed that so wasn't clear.
I'll get the "big picture" when I can but I probably won't have time to mess around with this again for at least a week. I expect it is an 8BA with that has Mercury pumps. Someone put a rebuilt Ford engine in their Mercury maybe? Here are the only two picture I have of it right now. The heads are clearly marked 8BA so that's what I'm assuming the engine is, maybe other parts will confirm/contradict that assumption to those in the know?
The center sump oil pan looks smooth sided which makes it '49-'51 Ford car. Ribbed sides would be '52-'53 Ford/ Merc car. Intake is common Ford car/truck 3 bolt Holley. If the flywheel is drilled for Long PP, it's Ford. Evenly spaced PP bolt circle is B&B Mercury.
My '40 Tudor has a '52 block and the water pumps are '51+- Ford car pumps, narrow belts with some kind of aftermarket adapters to '40 biscuit type frame mounts. I got the adapters off a 35 coupe getting a Nova subframe and other engine swap. I like having the skinny belts thinking if belt fails on a trip I can find a replacement easier and cheaper. I don't have any idea who the manufacturer of the adapters was and getting a pic of them would be difficult. They bolt to the pump with the 2 stock bolts plus 1 w/p to bolt bolt if I remember right. Then the tab sticks out for the biscuit and through bolt. Dave
Have You been made aware of the "hidden bolt" inside of the pump. It is a good idea to start shooting it with PB Blaster or L. Wrench a.s.a.p. They like to break....heat helps!
Disregard what I said about the water pumps. I didn't see a reference to what type flathead you had until I seen your pics after my post. I used the wide belt truck pumps on my 8BA. I am also using the Power Gen Alternator. Looks really good and keeps the integrity of the look of the motor. This video might help you out a bit. At about the 3:30 mark, he shows the difference in height of the motor mounts of the Mercury pumps like V8 Bob said.
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