a bit O/T: Living in Shop Buildings (?)

Hey there! My brother and I are looking to move soon to a place with more property. we're trying to debate on getting a very small house with an oversized lot and building a shop. Plan B would to get some land and build a bigger shop with living space above it.

I know the rules are different in each area, but does anyone know the basic rules of living in a shop?

I've seen some two story shops with living quarters on the second level, or loft levels.

Is it possible to have a 2 story pole barn built and I put in the water and sewage and everything to make it livable and still p*** codes and laws or restrictions?

I've been told yes and no from a lot of different people, and thought maybe someone here might already have one or know of someone that has converted their pole barn into their house.

Isnt the layout, in some respects, just like a regular home with the garage on the first level and the house above it(?) thats why i wouldnt think it would be a problem, but from what I've been hearing lately I have my doubts.

Any advice would be appreciated! thanks a lot

 

I have heard that the trick is to put yourself on the payroll as the night watch guard.
And as the night watch guard, you will need living quarters...

 

i'd check with the local zoning boards...if it's zoned residential, then you build your "house" with the whole 1st floor being your shop....which could be nice if you put in a bathroom on the first floor!!!! beats having to run into the house every time nature calls...
if it's zoned commercial/industrial, then you would want to check into whether the zoning allows a place of residence on another floor....look at all of the loft apartments popping up everywhere above storefronts.
definately check with the zoning board though...easier to play by the rules, then to have them try to screw you a couple months into the build. if the zoning is residential, inform them that the reason the whole first floor is a "garage" is due to the fact that you have a large vintage automobile collection!!! most govt. officials will look at a "collector" much more seriously than a "hot rodder"...
sorry for rambling...

 

I thought about doing the same thing at one point. I worked in the steel roofing and siding business for the last 13 years and this is what I was told.

you can build a pole building with a living area if you p*** the zoning laws. but getting a loan (like to build a house) is more difficult. If they are going to help you develope the land, they will want you to build a house, because it will have a higher value when completed. A pole building does hold it's value also, but doesn't appreciate like a house does.

when I looked into it, they wanted me to have the land paid for, so I could use the equity in it to cover the loan for the shop. When I checked into building a 1000 sq. ft. "A" frame house, it was $80 to $100 a sq. ft. for a cheap one.

just my $.02

 

I don't know if this is relevant but there are LOTS of ******** dudes living in rented out commercial spaces locally. They rent a commercial space between 4 dudes and somebody sets up home base. They fill the space with cars and it becomes a hang out, home and shop...

 

I wanted to do this too. I know a guy who has a nice two story home in a nice neighborhood. It is actually a 4 bedroom, 2 bath over parking for old cars. His shop is another building. What I learned is pretty sobering. If a fire starts downstairs while you are asleep, the smoke rises and you die of smoke inhalation without waking up. You never have a chance.

 

Didn't Kr*** & Bernie do that???

 

down the road from me there is a pole barn/house. it is all on one floor and the house part is in the back corner. i think some farmers live there cause they have lots of tractors and equipment they are always workin on. local codes will vary a great deal.

 

Yea, this is all real good advice, thanks guys! I'll have to look into the laws and zoning and such.

And yes sir! Kr*** and Bernie DID live above their garage! My life long idols! I've wanted to live in my garage for the longest time.

However, I guess I wouldnt nessecaraly need to live above it, I could live on the same level, in front of it or behind it, good point.

I wouldnt be doing anything different that a regular wood home with a built in garage hasnt done before.

And as far as a fire in the garage, that could happen with any house/over garage combo. I would think it would be worse with all the wood from the framing as fuel, versus the steel framing of a pole barn. Just a thought.

I have heard that if its going to be the same level you need an approved firewall between the living section and the garage.

 

Monster - just build it in the homeless camp by the airport, "Dignity Village"

Building codes don't seem to apply there...

 

Having the living quarters on the same level with a firewall between would be the most ideal of the two plans.
Living above the shop would expose you, not only to the fire and smoke hazard, but would allow chemical odors to penetrate the house area.

The difference with a house above the garage is that the house is built with an outside entrance which gives you an alternate fire escape

You will have to adhere to local zoning to get approval for anytype a loan other than from cousin Vinnie or the Mafia.

Jim

 

on the plus side for money savings you can call it your homested exemtion for your property tax.next the insurance on a home is a lot cheaper than comerical.If a home no inspections by the license dept.also you will not have to have handicap parking or restrooms. Minus side if a homested you may not be able to keep as much clutter outside or make noise late at night I hope this helps as I have a apartment in my shop. I told the building permit people that most people have a small garage and a large house I have a small house with a large garage. The last place I lived was a old grocery store converted to a shop and living quarters. these are great as they have good floors big electric panels and big parking lots and cheap to buy, I hope this helps ..

 

hey monster, up untill about a year ago. me and a budy were living in a shop in portland. i got a fair amount of stuff done, but it got old after two years. -josh

 

i always thought it would rock to find an old firehouse like in ghostbusters, and live upstairs and work downstairs. Take the firepole to work every morning.

 

A few years ago I dated a car guy that had a place similiar to Modernbeats. It was a large building in a light industrial area in a suburb of Detroit. When you walked into the front door, which look like a front door of a business you were in his living room, complete with ceiling. A normal bathroom was off the living room along with a kitchen and one bedroom. From the kitchen you opened a fire door and were in his 10 plus car shop with hoist. There was a parts loft above the living quarters and a big overhead door off the back of the place along with another people exit door. He's probley been living it it for 10 years and seems real happy with the setup. I'm not sure the city knows he lives there. It was very cool I thought. Hope this helps

Good luck with your decision

 

as SOON as I can afford it, I am going to live in a warehouse...

you know, something cozy... approx. 4000 sq.ft. is all I want...

1000 to build an apartment,
and 3000 of car loving fun...!!

 

That would be around $3000 a month here.

 

I've been doing it since 1998 or so. Some aspects are great, some ****!

The good:
This should be obvious, but your are constantly surrounded by your projects - whatever they might be.
You are the guard and are able to keep a close eye on what goes on.
You will probally have the oppertunity to design and build your own living quarters, so you can do whatever floats your boat.
If you do it in an urban area, everyone that knows you will either think you are seriously wierd, or completely cool.
You'll have lots of space to do stuff.

The bad:
You'll probally have to build a living space. No, not just design it, but actually build an apartment inside your space.
You'll be surrounded by stinky chemicals, metal filings, dust, more dust, greasy rusty car parts, aging cement dust, and your place will always smell like burned welding flux.
Everyone of your friends will ask you to store something for them.
It's hell on dating, particularly if your space is in the affordable and dangerous part of town (like my old space).
If you're in an urban area, expect to pay a fortune, or keep some "protection" nearby.
Everyone in the normal world will think you're bonkers.

If you want to get around all the handicap parking and ***ociated nonsense, just declare it a private hobby shop and keep the doors locked.

If you live there expect the inspectors to try to enforce code. Be prepared to show a real fire exit, respectable plumbing and electrical, and firewalls between the living area and the shop. Yes, sheetrock is a firewall.

If you have the option of purchasing land with a house you can live with and THEN build the dream shop, I highly encourage you do go that route. Industrial living is a short time thing for most folks and you get used to not being able to date anyone for more than two months.

FWIW, I'd never have bought those monsterous VW Beetle sized, folded horn speakers if I didn't live in a warehouse.

I'll be more than happy to answer questions on how I did things in my old 19,000 square foot warehouse, and how I'm doing things in my present 4,000 square foot studio. It's lots of fun, but be prepared to deal with your lifestyle not meshing with the world's expectations.

 

A friend of mine lives in his very successful hot rod business. The building was originally built with office space in the front, and industrial space in the back. He converted the office area into a nice apartment. Claims it is excellent; no noisy neighbors, they go home at 5 o'clock.....

 

I think that a fire sprinkler system ( really not all that expensive, and you can do it your self) would go a long way in providing a necessary safety factor for the code guys, insurance company, also mortgage co. & fire Marshall. I also realize that one would have to get a permit and this would just bring in the people that you don't want coming around anyway. Another Catch 22 ! Oh well just a thought.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Industrial living is a short time thing for most folks and you get used to not being able to date anyone for more than two months.



[/ QUOTE ] Actually,that would be an improvement.

 

When I built my garage, I ended up with two sets of plans - one for the bank showing living quarters, and one for zoning showing "office and storage" space. My building is 60x40, with a 20x40 apartment on the rear. It's in an area zoned residential. If I had told the county that the rear was an apartment, I would have had to pay about $4000 in impact fees as a residence. The alternative was to apply for a permit for a Mother-in-Law quarters which costs $860 for the application, with no guarantee of it being issued. The lots adjoin my brother's house, and the county couldn't seem to believe that we just wanted a big garage.

Buying a house with a large lot, and building a shop would be the best bet. Even with the apartment, my building was considered a non-conforming building by the bank, and it was difficult to find a bank that would finance it, even with a large down payment. It has a bedroom, large bathroom, and great room that is kitchen/living/dining. It took two years to get it started with all of the zoning hoops I had to jump through. Of course, this is in Floriduh.

 

Finished view...

 

Mutt, thats a good looking building!

And for all the others, these are all real good bits of advice for me to work with.

I have a real estate agent/friend of the family I'll run some of your suggestions by and see what he thinks.

I also have heard of putting a little narrow trailer home next to the buildings side wall. punch a hole in the wall where the trailers door is at, to get in the trailer from inside the garage, and call that your living area.

 

If I were young (dreaming) and single (still dreaming) I would try Modernbeats warehouse deal. I've always thought that kind of situation would suit me just fine. Here in BALMY Michigan I wouldn't have to shovel 2 ft. of snow 180 ft. everyday to get to my workplace. Actually being married (almost 40 years) and shoveling (keeps me in shape, somewhat) aren't that bad. At least I wouldn't change them.

Frank

 

smoke detectors, yo, problem solved.

 

Some places won't allow trailers,if it's not on a permanant foundation.

 

Ask Don (DRD57)... He lives it...

M-

 

Check the zoning of where you are looking at some of the larger towns have this on the net. The zoning will dictate what you can and cant do regarding occupancy. You can go for a zoning variance - but that involves time and money.

If you do build an inside apt be sure to have the garage area well ventilated and the living area sealed from the garage area.

If you buy property in a rural area, the pole barn idea is a good way to go, less noticable. I built a pole barn for a couple to put their travel trailer in and then we built them a house a year later.

Just be sure that the wiring is up to code to avoid overloaded circuits which can lead to fires.

 

yea, i was just running through all the stuff I would need to buy to build the apartment. I guess just in the batroom is where theres alot of fixtures, toliet, shower, lights, sink and stuff. the rest is just walls apart from the kitchen stuff.

Who knows, it may be more sensable to get a very small house or double/single wide, and build right off of that, incorperating it into the pole barn, just like an attached garage.

Only the garage will out tower the house, haha

And then maybe later on build the living space. maybe use the original house for the shower, kitchen, toliet, and the new addition wont have nay water or sewer, so the codes would be less strict then. I could call it the office is what you all are saying as a possiblity?