Before I get a dose of did you do a search, the ultimate T5 thread and so on, I have searched and read until I am blue in the face and didn't find the specific answers I need. So any help is appreciated. Some of you may have seen my post about having issues with the shifter on my top loader 4 speed in my A and I am working on a backup plan if that continues to be a problem. I purchased what I was told was a 1994 S10 T5 world class 5 speed. The tag is so rusty I cannot get any info from that and I know a lot of parts get swapped around over the years. It is a T5 world class transmission but has a 26 spline, 1 1/8" dia., 7 1/4" long input shaft. Which from what I read is from a Camaro and not an S10. It did have the S10 bell housing with the support struts still bolted to it when I got it. It has a 13-52-65-921 on the side of the main case. It has the T5 tail housing and appears to have the Ford bolt pattern on the main case. I understand even the Camaro used this bolt pattern after a certain year. The gears and bearings all look pretty good and I can see that someone has been in it before. My questions follow. What kit would I order to do a general rebuild? I am thinking this is a Camaro T5 with S10 tail housing on it? Yes? No? The speedo location in the tail housing has some kind of electrical plug in it which would jive with the speedo for the 94 S10. The main output shaft has some kind of straight cut gear on it 8 1/4" to the center of the gear from the main case. Is this something I can just replace with the correct speedo gear for a mechanical speedo? If not suggestions appreciated. No speedo is not a deal breaker. Last is I have a 1950's flathead stamped steel bell housing which has had the registration hole opened up 1/16" inch to allow the top loader to bolt straight up to it and my flathead. Will I be able to use this bell and directly bolt up the T5 or will I need some type of adapter plate? I also have the older style steel ring and hogshead if I need that. Suggestions? I know this has been discussed a lot here on the HAMB and I hate to rehash old stuff but this is new ground for me and while trying to make a back up plan I have stumbled into some gray areas.
I’d suggest you delete this thread and copy it to the main T-5 thread. It sure helps when info like this is gathered in a summary.
The 26 spline input shaft indicates that it came from a V8 Camaro/Firebird. Fords had 10 spline and S10 and V6 Camaro/Firebirds had 14 spline input shafts. The tail housing may very well be from an S10 as they can be easily swapped. If the shifter location is as far forward on the tail housing as it can be, it's S10. At some point in the early 90s, all GM gear cases switched to the Ford bell housing pattern. So best bet without the tag numbers and/or the number from the green and white sticker that's usually on the top plate, The gear case is from an early 90s V8 Camaro/Firebird. You can verify that it's WC or NWC from the front of the trans:
That thread got locked by some people that couldn’t play nice. Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Thanks guys. Here is a few pics. It looks in rough shape but I think it is ok. The shifter is as far forward as it can go. It has the recessed front bearing cover not the flat one. The gear set could be out of anything world class I guess but 26 spline says world class Camaro rebuild kit for it. The front bearing retainer has a chunk missing and the input shaft is rusty as hell but the gears all look ok to me. Any ideas on the speedo or the installation behind my 50 flathead appreciated.
That's a later S10 tail housing. The ribs are different from the earlier ones, but internally I believe they're the same. Looks like an electronic speedo drive, so the easiest fix is to run an electronic speedo. There are electronic to mechanical speedo drive converters but they're expensive.
count the teeth of the gear of the input shaft -it will be 26 - the same count as the splines the shatf total length should be 9 1/4 - not v8 8. 3/4 the gear on the shaft is the tone ring for the electronic speedometer drive you cannot without welding in an offset speedo drive, convert it to cable drive -note, if its gm, then that speedo drive set up is set to give you 16000 pulses per mile. if the first motion/input shaft has 26 teeth, you will have a dire 4.00 to 1 first gear that bearing retainer is gm and not ford, it 'would have being 4 5/8ths' fitted the stamped steel bell nice. you will need to add a spacer of 32mm- 1/. 1/8 to use that input shaft on a stamped steel bell. plus you need to know what bell you have as they differ. its from an earlier v6 chevy = might be a 1994 stock s10 v6 transmission IF the input shaft was 24 teeth, it would be v8 mustang camaro tvr cosworth would have the 070 matching counter/cluster shaft. if 23 teeth is v6 mustang - different cluster etc etc visul note check your bearing retainer pic against the above photos and note the distance between the bolts to the edge - bigger/alloy one is ford chevy I don't think ever did them in aluminium
I'm thinking that you are using the casting number on the case as ID rather than the actual number on the tag per what I see here. T5 Transmission Identification - What the Tags and Markings Mean - Lugnutz65ChevyStepside (weebly.com) This list usually has the tag numbers Identification Key to Borg-Warner T5 transmission ID Tags (britishv8.org) Now to thoroughly confuse you this link tells how to use a ten spline Jeep input shaft to simplify the clutch hunting and fitment problems. S10 T5 Transmission Jeep Shaft Swap - DIY and skip the adapter plate. - Lugnutz65ChevyStepside (weebly.com)
/\ he wont have a 21 tooth input shaft he will have a 26 toothen gear upon his the 26 tooth input shaft v6 gm transmissions are a bit of an oddball, as they only come behind the v6 use a 9.5'' clutch 240mm the shaft is total 9 1/4 not v8 8 3/4 1/2 '' longer than the v8 version - probably just in the tip was there ever a v6 t5 with a muncie pattern case ?
Nobby I haven't pulled the front bearing retainer yet but will do that and count the teeth. Here is a a pic of the bell housing I am using with my Ford top loader 4 speed. The registration hole was opened up to fit the top loader bearing retainer so it is a direct bolt in. It is a stamped steel bell. Mr48chev thanks. I appreciate the additional info. I have looked at all posted charts about tags and casting numbers (tag is rusty and useless so is sticker) and really from what I can find the only things I can go by are the spline count, diameter, and length of the input shaft. They appear to match up to what I have found in many of the links you posted as being from a Camaro. The tail shaft housing is obviously S10.
While searching around I found this. Beginning in 1993, there was no T5 available with the GM V8. All fourth generation F body T5s have a Ford T5 bellhousing bolt pattern (Figure 22-3). The 26-spline ´ 1⅛-inch input shaft is similar to the earlier V8 input shaft, but the pilot is longer than that used in the earlier models (Figure 22-4). The front bearing retainer is the same as used on the 1983-1992 GM T5. It had this pic with it which to me looks the same as the one I have.
That is the "Ford pattern" case that they used at that time and is a WC case. I've got a mid 80's S-10 T5 for my flathead. Got it from a kid who bought it to put in a Camaro and found out that it was the wrong one.
Looked again at the cases and have found the date casting. They both have a 3 inside a circle so I am thinking it is a 1993 trans as described above. The input shaft measures close to 9.25 inches long and has the extended pilot bearing area same as in the pic below.
Ok here is some more info. I just spoke to the guy I got the trans from and he says he helped pull this out of a 1994 S10 with a 2.2 4 cylinder motor. The more I search the more confused I get. I pulled the input shaft. It is 9 1/4" long. It is a 26 spline shaft. It has 25 teeth on the other end of it. See the pics. Not 21 teeth like the usual S10 4 cylinder WC t5 input shaft replacements I have seen, or 24 teeth like the 1994 Camaro V8 WC t5 replacements have. I have 25 and haven't found anything yet with that tooth count. Going to check 94 Camaro V6s next. The additional pic I posted looks almost exactly like the shaft I have but it lists as a 21T which I assume is the tooth count for a 94 4 cylinder WC t5.
erm a quick visual check i.e. you can tell its not a 24t input as the gear is bigger than the stinkronizers on a 24t v8 camaro
What a journey! I have seen t5's with 10 spline inputs, t5's with 14 spline inputs, t5s with 26 spline inputs! Folks who swear 93/95 Camaro v6 t5s were 14 spline inputs! Others saying 26 splines! This stuff is all over the map! I see stuff saying the first gear could be a 3.75 or it could be a 2.95, and it goes on and on... So I decided to get in touch with someone who has been working on t5s for years. I sent an email to Paul Cangialosi. Who, as he puts it probably has built a 1000 t5s! He responded to me at 11:30 at night by the way! He tells me what I have is a mid 90's Camaro V6 trans. He says all I really need to know as far as rebuilding it is if it is a world class or non world class trans. I know that it is a world class trans so I will order a rebuild kit based on that. I will get a 26 spline clutch as that is what is on the input shaft. There are a few different size ones and even Speedway has one for this conversion to the flathead. The last things to figure out will be if I can bolt this up to the stamped steel bell housing or will I need an adapter plate of some kind. This has a Ford bolt pattern. I may or may not have to shorten the pilot bearing shaft. And I may need to figure out if my throw out bearing will work with the bearing retainer it has. Then I'll decide how to handle the speedo issue.
Your transmission doesn't look like anything odd or special to me. Stock 93-95 s10. Your input shaft is S10, Your mainshaft is S10, Your case is 93-95 S10 and So is your tailhousing. Yes 93-96 Camaros had 26 splines on the input shaft but had a short bearing retainer. Your bearing retainer is a S10. You can quickly rule out that it is not a Z spec 2.95 gear set by counting the teeth on the input shaft. I can tell by the short splines that it is not a 2.95 gear but count the teeth for yourself and you will see it does not have 24 teeth. I do not have it in my hand to count your gear teeth but I would almost bet your gear set is 1st 4.03 2nd 2.37 3rd 1.49 4th 1.00 with a 0.86 overdrive and a 3.76 reverse. Paul is the man when it comes to the T5's but i bet if you emailed him pics of what you have he would say the same thing I am that what you have is just a stock 93-95 S10 world class T5 that was behind the 2.2 and 2.5 4 cylinders. Which also makes since as the Guy you got it from said he took it out of a 1994 S10. Also All worldclass T5 kits are the same So you will be fine when ordering a kit. Make sure to get the New style syncros. PS if you need a adapter plate to bolt that trans up to your flathead I make them or if you wanna make it yourself I will gladly help you with that as well.
Are you counting Gear Teeth or Slider teeth? As your top pic is showing the slider teeth and I see it shows 25 teeth but that is not the gear. The input shaft shown in your pic here is S10, Not Camaro! If it were Camaro it would have longer splines on it for the shorter Camaro only bearing retainer. Another way to confirm this is a S10 trans and not a V6 Camaro is count the teeth on 1st Gear, (which is the large one at the very back of the inside of the maincase it will be 32 or 34 tooth. If it is 32 then it is indeed a 93-95 S10 gear set. If it has 34 teeth it is a V6 Camaro gear. I been Doing this over 20 years and learned from Paul
Rather like arguing with a fence post, no matter what you tell it it is still stuck in the mud. "I've been told" is the first indicator that you have been listening to someone's BS story.
In this pic (same one you posted above) The Transmision on the left is 93-96 V6 3.8 Camaro/Firebird (Has 26 splines for clutch and 26 Gear teeth) The input shaft in his hand to the right is V8 88-92 Camaro/Firebird (Has 26 splines for clutch and 24 Gear teeth) Yours in not like either of these. Yours is S10 26 short spline for clutch (for S10 long bearing retainer) Should have 21 gear teeth. No other T5 input shaft had short 26 splines
S10's and V6 camaros were 14 spline but only up until 1992. All 1993-96 GM T5's were both 26 spline input shafts and ford bolt pattern case, Accept the 1993 one year only Worldclass 2.8 V6 S10. It had the Old Muncie bolt pattern case.
Hotrodlane you pointed out something I completely missed! When it was suggested I count the teeth on the end I assumed it meant the very end, not the gear. Those ARE teeth on the end just not the ones I needed to count. My error which just added to this/my confusion. I just counted the GEAR teeth and there are 21. You also pointed out it has the short 26 spline area. Now we are moving forward here! The case has the Ford bolt pattern on it and is a world class case. You also pointed out which bearing retainer I need to get as the one I have has a chunk broken out of it. I guess all that remains is to see what I need to do to bolt it to the stamped steel bell housing to make this work. Thank you! Mr.48chev while I appreciate the help you attempted to provide, what is like arguing with a fence post about? I wasn't arguing with anyone so lighten up. I was asking questions to verify and validate the info I was getting so that I could be sure not to go out and piss my money away on useless parts. Seems to make perfect sense to me. You never ask questions?
The guys that have been trying to help you deserve Kudo's for all the tech knowledge they have and for providing it. The one tidbit I can offer is that whatever adapter or housing you use, be sure that the alignment hole in it and the bearing retainer diameter are the same size and in alignment with the crankshaft. Sometimes people install transmissions in housings that have too large a hole, not realizing that they lose alignment. Chevys had different bore sizes on their truck bellhousings, so many people didn't know they had a problem. The trans slid in place and they assumed it was correct.
This is the reason I chimed in here. Many guys end up wasting money buying the wrong T5. Then they bring it over or ship it to me and I have to break the news to them that they got the wrong transmision to start with for what they wanna do. I have built many custom T5's for friends here and have assisted in Making one off T5's for high end vintage road race cars. Ernie's Ultimate T5 thread is what most guys here go to for info. Trouble is too many people posted on that thread Bad info that is not correct and confusing. I know everyone just wants to be helpful, But too many guys are posting info they heard from a buddy or read somewhere instead of real hands on experience. I seen you had ask a question about converting your speedo. Unless you are a machinist or have a buddy that is and will work for beer. Best thing to do is buy the aftermarket S10 tailhousing from Trans solutions and the aftermarket manual speedo gear and bullet. The tailhousing will cost you $235.00 and the speedo drive stuff about 35.00. But if you have to pay for welding a new plate on your tailhousing and machine work it will cost that much or more.
Not to open an old wound. But Ive got a T5 in my old Ford, its a Chevy small block with what I was told is a Camaro T5. My question is about the shifter. My shifter stub is over to the right, like the trans is mounted clocked off center. Looking under the car, the trans appears straight and level. But the shifter is off center. I've got a home made shifter attached to the stub sticking up on the trans and have it shaped to allow regular shifting. The "stub" is octagon shaped and a 3/4 socket fits onto it. I'd like to change to a short throw shifter, but cant figure out which one id need. I'm sure its the GM version as opposed to the Ford version. Any ideas ? I'll try and get some pics if that'll help. Thanks
I use these: https://core-shifters.com/collections/t5-swap-bases The Camaro/Firebird ones are here: https://core-shifters.com/collectio...s-swap-from-1983-2002-camaro-firebird-5-speed Those are for the transmission that is clocked 18º. The ones for taller sticks have shorter throws, even shorter if you don't put a tall stick on it.
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