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Technical AC vs DC Stick welding

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tubman, Sep 25, 2024.

  1. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When I was a teenager, my dad bought a 180 AMP Miller "buzzbox" welder. I took to it like a duck takes to water. I used it to build my first hot rod and first two race cars. It stayed at my folks house when I moved out. I got a MIG welder about 20 years later when I got back into the hobby and have been reasonably happy with it. A while ago, I bought an inverter-based stick/TIG welder because I wanted to do some chassis work. The inverter welder is DC only. In the ensuing 65 years, it looks like I have forgotten how to stick weld. I have a quality Auto-Darkening" helmet and have equipped it with a lense whose magnification matches my bifocals (a tip from a friend who is a professional pipe-fitter). I have run dozens of test beads and am continuously dissatisfied with them. Back in the old days, we had a stock of "farmer's rod" (6011/6013) and I just went to town. This time, I actually spent some time boning up on different rod types, and have tried fresh examples of every type applicable, all with equal lack of success.

    My question is if I am just (at 82) too old to weld, or could there possibly be enough difference between AC and DC welding that has caused the problem. BTW, I have asked a couple of friends to try the inverter welder and they like it just fine.
     
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  2. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,576

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    what stick rods have you tried with you DC welder?
     
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  3. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    6011, 6013, 7014.
     
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  4. Bentrodder
    Joined: Aug 10, 2010
    Posts: 298

    Bentrodder
    Member
    from Cotati

    What size rod are you using? How many amps is the machine? Being it is DC only, I am going to assume that it is a smaller 110 machine and I have found that they just don't have the poop to burn the rod properly.
     
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  5. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    It's a 220 machine and I haven't run it at it's full setting (140 AMPS) yet, because I have had burn through problems when practicing on tubing. (I remember running the old Miller between 100-125 AMPS back in the day; that's why I figured 140 would be plenty.) Rods are 3/32" and 1/8" (nothing larger). I have more rod types that I can't remember of the top of my head which I will post when I get back from my shop.;
     
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  6. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    When you say DC , do you mean DC RP ? I bought an AC/DC that had reverse polarity option & found that to be an improvement over my old AC Lincoln buzz box ,( 30 years ago) .
    6010-11-13 7014-18 ..
     
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  7. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    It will run both (which I've tried).
     
  8. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 15,151

    Bandit Billy
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    82? No pacemaker with Defib I hope. You'll get more than a lousy bead if you do.
     
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  9. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    Nope. Checked with the Doc; he didn't like it (on general principles, I think), but gave me the go-ahead.
     
  10. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    I use 6013 @ 90A , DC RP most of the time as a drag rod , @ 76 , even with a 4x magnifier lens its getting harder to see ( wet AMD) .
     
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  11. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    I'm finding a lot of things I'm "too old" for; I hope this ain't one of them. That'll mean a few unfinished projects.:(
     
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  12. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,323

    alanp561
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    6011, 6013 and 7014 work best on AC. 6010 and 7018 work best on DC reverse polarity.
     
  13. Alan beat me to it. At tech school, we learned on DCRP and used 7018 rods.
     
  14. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 3,446

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I always liked 7018 rod....

    ...
     
  15. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    Never tried either 6010 or 7018. Time to buy some rod. It's starting to sound like there is a bit of difference between AC and DC stick welding.
     
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  16. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,545

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

    7018 requires DC polarity.
     
  17. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    Given the reason for this thread, I sure hope so.:D
     
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  18. 7018 is the way to go!
     
  19. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,545

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

    That’s all I ever used on high pressure vessel X-ray welding.
    Handles very well with minimal splatter and washes impurities very well.
    Most of the 6000 tensile strength rods work very well with dirty, rusty and oily metals.
    (Farmer’s rod) :)
    7018 burns hotter and works well with washing slag from the weld.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2024
  20. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,798

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Make it easy on yourself : 3/32" 7018 set at about 105amps DCRP for openers, then adjust to suit. keep the rod you're going to use in some kind of "rod oven" to keep it dry : any small insulated box you can seal up & put a small light bulb in to provide heat will work fine.
     
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  21. Forty years ago, I had the use of an ancient AC welding machine. A welder friend of mine suggested I get some 3/32 7018 AC rod, designed specifically for machines like the one I was using. Worked well. Lots of upgrades to welding technology today, even that 7018 rod.
     
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  22. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 25,796

    Roothawg
    Member

    Man….7018-7024…brings back memories.
     
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  23. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 16,671

    jimmy six
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    6013 is for flat plate..we called it mud rod at our power plant. I had a red Lincoln AC/DC 220 195 amp and it was perfect. 7018 is a great rod DC only and I’m back yard guy at 80 years old now. We bought a Hobart mig and I became pretty good.
     
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  24. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Hard to buy a light bulb that emits heat these days .
     
  25. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    I've got a"built-in" house oven converted for powder-coating (and free electricity in my shop). I'll bet I could use that. Got a recommended temperature?
     
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  26. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,323

    alanp561
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    7024 JetWeld. Greatest thing in the world for welding flat down or filet welds. Ran miles of Jet on the floors and roofs of oil storage tanks. Set your heat right and you can watch the slag peel off the weld. Rarely have to power brush or grind it. @tubman, wish that I lived closer to you. Oh crap, what am I saying, it gets cold where you are! Wish you lived closer to me; I could get you back on track with your welds pretty quick. All you need is good eyesight and practice, practice and more practice. Oven temp at 250 F. If your rod has been sitting around exposed to humidity, put it in the oven for 4 hours. Don't forget to use your gloves to handle it.

    upload_2024-9-25_20-19-10.png
     
  27. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    Not a problem 'cause I go to Florida for the winter. (It is required when you get past a certain age.)

    I ordered 5 lbs of 7024 "Premium" 1/8 rod from Amazon just now. They did have "Jetweld", but the minimum order was 50 lbs! (I can't believe there's that much difference.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2024
  28. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,323

    alanp561
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    Most of the welders I knew could easily burn 50 to 75 pounds of Jet in a day. By the way, 7024 runs better with DC straight polarity.
     
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  29. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,953

    tubman
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    Lemme see if I got this right; Reverse polarity for 6010 and 7018. Straight polarity for 7024.
     
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  30. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,323

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Right, you got it
     
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