Hot Rods AD_NAPCO's 39 GMC Rocket 324 Build

Yes, you are correct. The crossmember for automatics is different than for standard...

 

I have seen differences in crossmembers that I had. I just can't ID a crossmember by looking at them, as they don't have a part number on them.

I was going to ask what year the donor Hydramatic crossmember you have for your former AT, and then look in my Olds parts book to see if stick was different... But I would think it was different, but the book won't say if the angle was different.

Just modify either the crossmember or the mount, but there does not seem to be enough meat on the mount to offset one hole?

BTW, don't forget to use a full face gasket between trans and bell, or it will leak oil. I think you already know that, but just in case..

If that Buick trans with Olds gears is good, you will love it. I would not trade mine for TWO 37 LaSalle transmissions

 

one more thing on the Buick trans.

I do recall you bought the trans and bell as a previously modified setup...

There should be a new hole counterbored, or drilled-through, at the upper right face on the bell, for shift rod clearance when in first gear. Did they counterbore a blind hole, or is it drilled out completely? If drilled though, it may weep oil.

I bored mine 1" for a cup type freeze plug, sealed with gasket sealer.

 

Well, I feel like an idiot because I probably got rid of the wrong cross member thinking they were the same. I don't recall who told me that they were in fact identical but someone did and I believed them. I put the two cross members next to each other and they did look the same. Seeing the subtle differences in the angle no, I'm sure I would not have seen it unless in this scenario. I think this is the H-M cross member. That was a 53 olds trans, so this is probably the 53 Olds cross. Well, live and learn.

There is not enough meat in these mounts to mod them. Besides, when I go to replace these mounts, I'd have to mod them again. If I mode the cross it should be a one time deal.

Frank, I will check on that shift rod clearance hole...

Thanks guys. I'm excited to get this ball moving again. One task at a time!

 

Well I've started laying out my cuts on the cross member. I pulled my little Lincoln weld-pak 100 MIG welder out and got the tank set up. Fired it up and went to lay down a couple practice beads on some scrap because it's been a while. Damn think isn't penetrating worth a crap. It gets hot and it'll maintain an arc but it's not putting out enough juice, even at the highest setting to get penetration on thin wall tubing stock... It's always something. So now I'm looking at what parts I can liquidate to pay for a new welder. This one is old and I don't think it's worth paying someone to fix it. At least not at this point. I was really hoping to get a machine that will do TIG but I'm not liquid for that kind of coin right now. Probably just try to get a better MIG machine. Oh well. Happy 4th of July!

 

Well, I hit a sale at Northern Tool and ordered a new welder. I read a bunch of reviews and watch some Youtube video reviews and settled on a Hobart Handler 140 MIG machine. Should be a significant upgrade to my little Lincoln lunchbox.

Frank I looked at my bell housing and it has not been bored for clearance on the shift rod(s). I ordered the best gasket kit for the 37 Buick and it looks like the full face gasket included will give me the template I need. I will probably take it to a machinist to have it bored though rather than try and drill it myself it doesn't look like it needs to be bored but maybe 1/8 " to 3/16". I'll have to see if I can figure out how much meat is actually there.

Another issue that I decided I needed to figure out while I'm waiting for a welder is being able to plug this trans into the back of my crank. The snout on the input shaft measure .590" OD, and it looks like the bore in the crank may be a touch smaller. Like .581" Also, I notice there is a piece of tin pressed into the back of the crank that is kinda munged up. Is that supposed to be replaced? I was under the impression that since this crank's numbers indicate it is from a 303, according to the machinist, that it was supposedly a good fit for this input shaft. I am thinking about taking a dremel and just relieving the opening of this tin piece in the back of the crank and seeing if I can get a more accurate measurement of the pilot bore. Maybe it is .59 or bigger.

 

I am pretty sure that piece keeps grease in the pilot. It might have felt washer under it?, I forget, but I think it did. I could look in the parts book.

The pilot bushing should be the same as typical Chevy. And the stock Olds bushing should be the same ID as what an Olds Selector input shaft needs...because it's factory setup, if you really have Olds internals in your Buick case.

If your bell was not relieved for the Buick shift rod, I'd be checking that entire setup you bought, because that seller said it was a previously run setup. How could that be, with no relief hole? So, I'd check to see if it has an Olds input shaft, or is it 37 Buick? Measure total lengths from the trans face; to the tip, and to the end of splines, etc. I can measure one here.

 

Yeah, Frank, when you mentioned that relief hole it got me a bit freaked out. I'm wondering now if he sent me an unmodified bell by mistake or there is something fishy going on. Take a look at these pics and see what you think.
Here are the measurements:

Input Shaft:
Trans Face to tip of shaft: 7 7/8"
Trans Face to end of splines along major diameter, before taper: 6 3/8"
Pilot/snout length: 1.05"
Shaft Major Diameter: 1.275"
Shaft Minor Diameter (pilot/snout): .590"

 

Oh, and if you could check on that piece in the end of the crank for me... That'd great. I just looked at your 32 thread (how's that going btw?) and saw how nice and clean yours was... I'd like to replace that piece if I can. Is that the pilot bushing retainer? If so, I guess I definitely do need to pull it and replace it. Be a good time to pull the bushing and just make sure it actually fits the snout on the input shaft.

 

Ok so Rockauto.com lists the pilot bushing as NATIONAL Part # PB656, which has a bore of .592". That is consistent with just enough clearance for a .590" pilot snout. I have not seen a part listed for the retainer anywhere yet though.

 

Just looked it up in a 1958 parts manual. They call it a pilot bushing retainer. They show it fits "all" (meaning stick and AT) from 1940 to 1956 except 56 type "O" H.T. which is the Jetaway. I don't think it is needed, because the bushings I have seen here, are pressed into the crank. Maybe someone else can advise? (if Ross Racing does not make one, you'll know it is not needed)

There is no felt listed in the bushing area, except on 56 type O A/T, and 57-58 A/T, and those are listed by thickness and the word cube . Must be some sort of wick to keep a bit of lube? I don't know because I don't own a Jetaway engine.


On your pics: The trans input definitely looks like Olds, but I will measure mine tomorrow. Your trans looks good; the First/Rev sliding gear is not chewed up from shifting into 1/R with car still moving, and the wear faces look smooth, so it was not run low on oil or run with oil that was full of trash. Also, that is an Olds tail housing.

But, that bell is odd. Is that a new window cut into the bottom? and is that a oil groove cut in the bell face from bearing towards the bottom? I don't get that. Yes, it has a replacement mainshaft bearing that is sealed, but oil could weep past the bearing OD because it's a slip fit. Need more opinions on the groove. At this point, I'd plug the groove with RTV on install, but I will rethink it more. Bugs me that if the groove was cut for the "new" sealed bearing, then why is there no relief hole in the bell for the shift rod???? (there isn't a relief on yours)

 

I didn't give any thought to either that oil groove or what I thought was an inspection window in the bottom before today... The groove as you'll see in the pictures definitely looks cut-in. I hadn't looked closely at either thing as this is the first and only bell of this type I've had in captivity. The window looks factory... But I trust you if you say it's not.
I'm glad the rest of it looks right... Maybe someone will chime in about that bushing retainer. I'll just pull it if I don't need it. At least then I can get an accurate measurement of the bushing bore.

 

It looked like fresh cut marks in the green paint in the first pic group. I don't recall a LOT of things lately I did look for a bell pic to "remind" me if that hole is stock. ....

Can't find a good view but found these two on the relief I do with a freeze plug.

OH...is that shifter handle and base bezel chromed??? or do I also need better glasses

 

Don't need the tin piece.... It held a piece of oiled felt .... Today's oil bushings don't need it

 

Frank, I'm gonna guess that window is stock, but maybe I'm missing a tin shield that should clip in with spring tangs or something? The attached pic shows another one with the same hole. And yes, the shifter, which uglier than sin is chromed, and has been cut and welded or bent and welded and ground really badly. I'm looking for a donor stick to replace this one with. I'll have to cut this one off and weld the donor on as I don't think there's any way to pull this stick without some kind of special tooling. The retainer is chromed as well. I was thinking that might be stock too because I could swear I saw one of yours was chromed as well.

Thanks Tony... I could cut it out. My only concern now that you say 'todays oil bushings don't need it' would be that I'm not sure that the bushing is made of the modern material. I'm assuming oilite bronze?

 

I've had the sticks out; the factory kind of made them difficult. Flip the top cover over and you will see the two rivet headed things holding in a shift plate. Look at the top of the top cover, and you'll see those rivets are peened over in an X pattern as I recall. I was forced to take one apart for some reason, and I think I just ground the peened part off, then on install, I spot tacked them with a mig (from the top)

My shift base is not chromed, it is shiny from buffing I think


PS, I'm glad Tony said there was felt in those covers. I sure thought I saw felt on some, but my memory is playing tricks lately...not in a good way..

The pilot bushing is Chevy specs .... well...99% sure Get a modern new one locally

 

Looks like the local Oreilly store has the oilite bronze version in stock. So I guess the next step will be figuring out the best way to pull the old bushing out, and then get the new one pressed in properly, without pulling the crank. I could see if I can find a bolt big enough and try to make tap out of cut threads in the bushing, and then I could use a puller on the bolt. Hopefully the last person didn't use loctite! I suppose if they didn't... Maybe I should use the green loctite?

 

Josh, I have five of those bells and all have the lower inspection hole, some with a tin snap in cover from the factory. None have a groove cut in them so I would fill that. Check with your machine shop as they may have a neat tool that will allow you to pull that bushing out. I have seen it done with grease and forcing in a dowel. The pressure pushes out the bushing. Can be messy!
My Buick tranny has a broken spring so I am knocking out the rivets and will see if I can find a spiral spring to replace the broken one (as Frank mentioned).

 

Hey Walt... Thanks for the idea. I used a couple different techniques. I started by using a rolling head pry bar and popped the retainer out. I then soaked some notebook paper in water and packed the hole with that. I used a drift wrapped with duct tape up to the point that it made a sealing surface between the tape and the bushing. I started tapping with a hammer to pack the paper/water into the hole. Kept tapping and repacking with more wet paper and it I got it to move. Well, eventually I got it too packed and I ran out of hydraulic action. So I dug all the paper and and went for the bearing grease. Did the same thing just with grease and after about 10 minutes of tapping, little moves, repacking, and repeating it finally popped right out. I avoided the grease in the beginning to try and avoid the mess you mentioned. In the end the grease wasn't too bad and I'm sure was more effective. So the next thing will getting the new bushing pressed in without getting it cocked or anything. I don't think it'll be too big a deal.

Thanks again!

 

Oh, and there wasn't any felt behind the retainer.

 

Good going on the pilot removal. I found what I think is a nos and another slightly bent retainer in a bag of Olds stuff today. I would let you have it but I think I will put it on Ebay and see if I can get an idiot to pay me $600 for it!

 

Well, if you find that particular brand of idiot, let me know, I may have parts for them too!
Tony says I don't need no stinking retainer with the oilite bronze bushing. My only concern now is whether I should use the green loctite in there because there's not retainer, or just utilize the press fit and call it good. I have the feeling that if I were to use even the weakest loctite that I'd be completely boned for doing the hydraulic removal. I'd probably have to be pulled mechanically in the future... So press fit with no loctite?

 

Yes, hammer it in with a little grease to help. I have bushing drivers, but you can use a large very short bolt with a washer... or if it's a longer bolt, use a nut with the washer.


Back to the groove in the bell. I looked at two empty 37 cases today to verify if they have an oil return hole to return oil from the input main bearing. Both of these do, and it looks like the Buick hole will align to that "oil pocket hole" in the stock Olds bell. If they do line up, and if your case also has a return hole like mine have, then you "must" fill that ground in groove.

I'll be back in the shop and measure the input, and check a complete 37 trans to see if that one has an oil return.

One more thing I'm rethinking, is the sealed main bearing on yours. I'd rather have an unsealed, or at least have the inside of the bearing to not have a seal. Seems like a bearing with seals on both sides is not a good idea IMO. Opinions???

 

Frank, I will defer to your expertise on this. If you say it needs a different main bearing setup then I'm all for it. I just need to know what parts I need... Do you have a list of the parts you've used to recondition yours? Or did you do a thread documenting the swap of the selector parts into the Buick case? I've not really torn a trans like this apart so I'm not 100% sure what I'm getting into. I suppose I ought to get at least a shop manual that covers the trans where these internals originated... That'd be 51 Olds?

 

I did some tech w/pics on a 37 Buick thread started by Fedcospeed.

But, I know I have snuck the front bearing out on one of those, without taking anything apart.

The bearing is not a press fit onto the input shaft. The bearing is a slip fit on the OD into the case.

So, unless the ID is "stuck" to the input shaft, just take off the small snap ring. Leave the big OD ring on, so you can pry the bearing out with two screwdrivers 180 apart. Because of the slip fit, if you pry too hard on one side, it can lock to the shaft. A little patience will get it off without cocking it.

If it has been on there a long time, it might take a bit to "break it free". If it won't, then pull the bearing a bit out of the case, and use two or three pieces of flat metal behind the big ring and the case, 180 or 120 apart, and bump the end of the input inwards with a brass/copper/hardwood hammer. Don't beat the big snap ring out of shape. Once it breaks free, use the screwdrivers.

You are only removing the bearing. The input shaft stays in the trans, although flopping around a bit.

I've always been lucky with having old NOS parts here if needed, so I don't have a vendor list. I can get a bearing number from an unsealed bearing here. Walt might know if the number on your sealed one, can be decoded to unsealed version?

I also need to measure some more inputs. I did one, and came out a bit over 8". I will get more measurements

 

Ok. Well, I'll go out there and see if I can get that bushing pressed into the crank and then I'll see about pulling that main bearing to see what the numbers are on it. Thanks Frank!

 

Ok, so the pilot bushing is in. I've had a bearing/seal/race driver set from HF sitting on the shelf for a few years untouched. Turns out the aluminum driver that came with it has the perfect sized shank to fit the bushing. So that went in snug. Next I pulled the snap ring off the sealed bearing but before I went any further I decided to look for numbers... So here's a head scratcher. It's a metric bearing. 207PPG is the number. I can't read the manufacturer's mark but it has an origin of JAPAN. Before I go any further in pulling it, I am curious about other opinions on this... Looking at the opposite end of the case, the bearing going into the tailshaft appears to be a double sealed unit as well, at least I assume it is because the inside is sealed.

 

Josh,I am with Frank on these new sealed bearings. don't believe it is a good idea. I can talk to Rusty out at NW Trans tomorrow and see if he has the open bearings. I have found a replacement bearing for a Lasalle that is used in a mower deck but it is also sealed on the oil side. I used one then as I could not find the correct replacement.
Guess I am a a little late to the party on the bearing thing..................why are you taking the tranny apart?

 

Only reason initially that I am getting into the trans is that Frank had concerns about the sealed bearings. The other reason, as the pics will show, is that I want to get this scuzzy looking shifter freed from the top. After reading your description of the two staked rivets I wired brushed mine and found that it's been messed with before, which only stands to reason seeing how the stick was chromed before it was cut and bent etc. Looks like they fully popped one rivet out and left the other. Not sure how they freed the bracket, other than maybe they heated and spread the foot on the other side. I decided to go ahead and remove both of them. So now the question is, doe the pin that the spring is bound by on the underside come out to release it, or is that a key that has to be driven back through the stick from the top side?

If I need to change out these bearings, I guess this is the perfect time to go ahead and pull this thing apart to clean the case and paint it... I'm going to be on the lookout for a good stick to graft on to this one. They really boogered this one up good.

 

I'd have to look at one of mine to recall the pin holding the spring, deal. I just don't recall. The way the pin is under on one side rings a bell... Can you see if by having one side of the pin tucked under like that, does it cause the shifter to want to stay over to the right side?

The whole idea on that special spring is that it holds the shifter over to the right in the neutral gate....so you have spring tension to go towards second/third gate coming out of first. That's my take anyways. I am pretty sure if it's not installed correctly, the neutral gate feels like crap.

When it is correct, and the two detent ball springs are firm, that trans shifter feels so nice.

10pm here..and sleepy....Still getting flashbacks on the pin for the spring. Don't quote me yet, but I think it's tucked under one coil to keep the pin from falling out. I think the pin is not pressed, rather a slip fit. Does the pin look like a taper so it can only come out in one direction? If you can't figure it out, I will dig one out