Happy Thanksgiving, all. Here’s something to ponder after enjoying your turkey dinners. The frame mounts for my split wishbones were done by a previous owner and strike me as a little sketchy. I’m seeking your collective wisdom as to what if anything I should do about them. Here’s what was done: A section of ¼” angle iron is bolted to the bottom of the frame with two 3/8” grade five bolts. There is a 1/4" plate above, with the frame sandwiched between them. The ¼” vertical split-bone mounts are bolted to the angle iron with two 7/16” grade 5 bolts. Pics: My concerns: Should I be worried about for flexing in the bottom edge of the C-channel frame? I don’t notice any problems when driving. However, all of the split bone mounts I have seen are bolted to the stiff outside vertical surface of the C-channel frame. Also, are two 3/8 grade five bolts sufficient? Should I upgrade to grade 8? While I’m at it, should I upgrade to nylon lock washers or castle nuts? Currently these have basic lock washers. The car is a banger-powered Model A speedster with a ’34 axel and split bones that have been pie-cut. It will see maybe 500 or so miles each summer. It drives and tracks great right now, so there is nothing other than my eye and active imagination telling me I might have an issue. So what does everyone think? Change all of it, some of it, or just leave well enough alone?
It will get you where you are going, but I understand your concern as the applied movement of that bone and rod end will work as a shear or scissors after some time. Could you use the existing plate as a stencil and extend it upward 6 inches and drill and bolt into the sidewall of the frame as well?
OK, you asked!! First thing I see is a gap between the frame and the top of the outside wishbone mount plate. It looks like the wishbone plate itself has a weld across it just below the bottom of the frame and it's not welded to the frame. The top of the wishbone plate above the weld is bending out because the heel of the angle isn't flush with the side of the frame. Welding across the top of the wishbone plate to the frame would help. Start at the ends with your weld and finish in the middle instead of welding straight across. That's so you don't leave a crater at the end of your weld which will be prone to cracking. Not being able to see the inside of the frame, I can only guess that there is no frame boxing in the area of the wishbone mount. I would add some and then add gussets to the inside of the bottom angle to help keep the whole thing from bending out
Yeah it looks rough, but I've lost the bolts out of my rod ends before and drove an unknown amount of miles without noticing it. I've seen some pretty sketchy looking wishbone plates that held up, and weren't as reinforced as yours, so I don't know what to tell ya, if it's bothering you, redo it, if you're worried about the strength aspect, I wouldn't be
I think I would build new nicer/cleaner looking mounting brackets,and instead of bolting on that lower section of angle iron to the side plate I would weld it making it a one piece bracket. Run the side plate fully to the top of the frame so you can use 4 bolts. Boxing the back side would be great IF you can get to it with out taking the car a part.The ends of the wishbones look to have had what ever tie rod ends/ adjuster tube the builder could find welded to them.It would look a lot neater with new threaded bungs from Speedway,and 48 Ford tie rod ends....or use model A ends for a real old school look. It is a cute car I bet it gets a lot of looks.
Mounting to only the bottom rail will eventually fatigue the rail material and it will break. I have seen that happen. You need to also tie it into the side of the frame. There is also the possibility that the bracket might twist. I have also had that happen. I make my mounts strong enough to be used on a military tank. I gusset the vertical and horizontal parts, and weld in big support plates inside the frame rails at the attachment points.
It is certainly rough looking. It would also benefit from the vertical plate being extended up and bolted to the vertical frame. Looking closer, it seems that may have originally been just the vertical piece welded to a flat piece to create an L-shaped piece. It probably flexed and cracked, so he cut the vertical piece off and welded an extension, plus welded a new piece to the bottom frame flat piece, which then bolted together. I would consider making a new vertical plate that would move the mount up closer to the frame, will require to pie cut the radius rod to maintain caster. Then add inside gusset that will replace that bolted angle piece, but use the existing holes in the bottom leg of the frame. Drill new holes in the vertical piece, and the frame vertical section, to bolt it in. That would be stronger and cleaner.
Wow! Looks like scrap metal was used. Cut it all out and redo it using correct materials. Even 1/2 x 6 angle iron would be better.
Those mounts are already on the glide path to failure. There is no fixing these. They need to be replaced with properly constructed ones, that weld on. As has been mentioned, they need to attach to the frame rails on at-least TWO planes. You might be able to get away with single-plane mounting, but that would need to be the vertical web of the c-channel of the frame. This is not the place to take chances. If you have a failure here, you will get no warning. Guessing the outcome is a stupid game. You should examine the mounting areas very carefully to ensure that they are not already cracked.
What Gimpy said, but especially this bit !!! Wise advise indeed, and something most would overlook. The best new mounts in the world will be no good if the structure you are attaching to is already compomised.
Sketchy and also lock washers do not belong anywhere on a chassis, they will come loose. I would address all the questionable work done.
Thanks guys. Great advice from everyone. My gut told me it was sketchy and you've reaffirmed that. Proper brackets are now on my winter project list, and I appreciate the input on welding, gussets, 2 planes, etc. I have to wonder what the original builder was thinking. Like, maybe these were intended to be only temporary while he got the caster sorted out? And then he just figured what the hell, good enough? I see a lot of evidence of fiddling to get things right. And sketchy work aside, he did get it right. Tracks great, not a hit of wobble. Weird thing is, the brackets were extended with a stick welder at some point. But why only a few inches instead of all the way up the frame?
Good eye! Yes, it is a Mercury Sport Body, rescued from the bushes behind an old rental house shortly before it was torn down. Full story in my Hamb build thread.
Maybe Im missing something here but why run split bones on a banger car? You split to clearance a big trans or oil pan. A close to center as possible mounting point for wishbone is preferable. Not like theres a hemi in there.
You'd have to go back several decades and ask the orignal builder. I like your thinking. OK, seriously, this will remain a 4-banger. But truth be told, I'm in negotiations with a friend on an old hemi-powered Mopar. We'll see what comes of it...
have you used a stock 35-40 drag link as the tie rod, and cut and welded it? was also quurious as to why there appears to be a washer between the tie rod end and the steering arm oh and have you lost a spindle stop nut.
Like Adam401 mentioned, I would look into putting a full wishbone in there although it may require reworking the exhaust a little bit. That's the best choice. Making up some new better brackets would be second. Either way, that nice little car deserves to have those rough old brackets replaced.
Honestly id check all the hardware and make sure it was tight then just drive it. Its not the most beautiful but I bet it's more than strong enough for what's going on there. You can find plenty of nervous guys on here that'll have you build a bridge under there but id just drive it and any change I made would be putting an unsplit wishbone in
I am not a "nervous guy". I am an Automotive Engineer, for the world's 5th largest automaker. I neither guess, nor speculate. My career would end in an instant, permanently.
Thanks guys. I know there's lots I could do. Stock wishbone is not a simple bolt-in, however. It has a '39 trans and period Ansen adaptor, curently no provision for conventional wishbone mount. Again, drives great. The split bone mounts can be improved without altering positioning/dynamics. Maybe replace the bungs and ends while I'm at it, which are solid but I've never liked the look of.
There is a bolt on wishbone ball mount for that kit... My truck uses one. We can talk more about that Saturday.
A bolt on wishbone mount as hitchhiker mentions would be the best solution with a stock wishbone. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
It's easy enough to fix. Unbolt it and build yourself a proper mount. Search the archives using Google with wishbone mount and HAMB in the title. The hamb's search function is anemic at best.
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