Technical Advice on selling a complete engine.

Three years ago, I inherited from my dad a 409 that’s in a 1960 Impala and a 348 that is sitting on an engine stand. The 348 is complete but it hasn’t been broken in or started since being rebuilt. My Dad had dementia when he built the 348 but never put it in a car. I’m considering selling the 348 but I don’t want to sell something not fully knowing what I’m actually selling. My question is should I take this 348 apart and verify the internals before posting it for sale? Or should I start it on the stand and video it running to post along with pictures and all the serial numbers? Would it be less valuable taken apart vs. complete? I also want to thank you all for your input. I don’t think I’ve ever posted before but I have read a lot of this forum over the years and really enjoy learning from this forum.

Thanks,

 

Well that’s a tricky situation. Your dad having dementia during the build is definitely problematic. On the other hand, my grandfather’s dementia didn’t affect long term memory. In other words, automotive knowledge he’d known for 50 plus years was still in tact even if he couldn’t remember what you said 5 minutes ago. So you’re dad might have done it right.

I think I’d put it on a run stand and do the normal things, spin it over without rockers or spark plugs to get oil pressure, if that goes well, and the pressure is good move on to the next step of firing it up, but confirm #1 TDC so it’ll light off quick.

As a buyer if I can’t hear it run I’m more likely to pay core prices unless you are a trusted friend. Get it running and you’ll be able to ask more for it.

 

If it's the correct engine for the car I would keep it. If you ever sell the car a restorer may want the correct engine for it.

 

The only way to verify "knowing what you are selling" is to tear it down and measure components or have all the receipts of what was done. "Rebuilt" is a loose term and can infer lots of differences in what was done. Another option is to run it on a test stand to break it in and then check compression and oil pressure and sell it as a running motor.
The 348 is a sought-after motor depending on the variation.

 

Bless your father.
Bless you and your family.

I encourage you to disassemble the engine and measure everything and/or allow the prospective buyer to measure. Also to tell the buyer the history of the motor with your dad. For all the reasons. The person who buys the motor and the person who you want to buy the motor will appreciate all the reasons.

 

When it's time to let go of something, maybe it's best to just let it go, as it is. Tell potential buyers what you know about it, and that it's sold "as is". You might be surprised what someone will pay for it. And on the price...start high, but drop it if you don't sell it quickly, and keep dropping it until it sells. But that doesn't mean take the first low ball offer, either.

 

I would say it all depends on how much you are looking to get for the 348. If it were me, I would try to sell it as-is for a little less considering you don’t know everything about it being very transparent with any buyer. My guess is that you could spend a lot of time and effort checking everything out to get similar money in the end. I just bought a fresh 331 Cadillac for less than it is likely worth from a friend in a similar situation. It’s a gamble for the buyer, but the parts are still worth quite a bit even in unknown condition. Even just pulling the valve covers would likely tell a buyer whether it is fresh or a core.

 

“…My question is should I take this 348 apart and verify the internals before posting it for sale? Or should I start it on the stand and video it running to post along with pictures…”

Hello,

First of all, you have quite a story and parts. I see your dilemma. We had a complete 1940 Willys stock motor we got running before we took it out for our modifications and an SBC motor set up. Now, my brother’s idea was that it can be sold as a recently, running motor. We kept the motor until we were ready to sell everything in January 1961. The motor sold fast and the new guy was happy it was a “running motor” when we took it out. When he saw the 671 SBC motor sitting on a rolling cart, he knew why we took out the stock Willys motor.

If you can get the motor running and take a video, that is all well and good, but serial numbers aren’t public knowledge until you sell it. We would have been impressed with the running motor video. If you do not know what has been done, but the motor is running, let the new buyer run it until it stops, (OR IF IT STOPS) then he will find out what was inside the motor. Anything “used” or second hand, is always a gamble and despite knowing what is in the motor, the build itself is questionable if it is not from a guaranteed motor shop build for sale. No need to completely take the motor apart and rebuild it.

Jnaki

As we were cleaning out our backyard garage and final parts sales item, we did not start the 671 SBC motor, but had a listing of all that went into it. We showed the buyer the time slips from Lion’s Dragstrip and how many runs it had on the complete build. The price was good and it sold to a guy from the Midwest on the phone.

He flew out the next day and gave us a U.S. Postal Money Order for the sale. We helped him pack it up in a crate and called the moving company. He was a happy guy and was impressed with the items on the SBC motor. (he probably was the only guy in the Midwest that had the newest 671 Isky Gilmer Belt Drive for an SBC motor… the Westcoast drags only saw two at the time.)
Similar build in the same time period on the Westcoast.

Good luck on the sale.

 

only you know what condition your dad was in when he put it together. I would pull the pan & valve covers if it all looks good & all the parts are in it check the caps to see if they are in the right spots torque on the mains & rods . if that all looks good spin it over with a breaker bar to see if there is any issues .go from there. to me motor is way more valuable together & running than a bunch of parts in a box

 

If you take it apart to check everything, you will have to put it back together as a running engine
if you want to get a good price. Squirrel is correct in his advice.

 

I say option #3; buy a period correct roller project and drop the 348 in it!

How to sell the engine depends on how much $$$ you want to get out of it? Running on a stand may net you 3-5 times more than a "not running mystery". Also depends on if you have receipts of the internal parts and machine work. If it was done by a very well known machine shop, all the better.

Selling the engine "as is/where is" will have you answering the same list of questions from each buyer. Then you'll have buyers that will look it over then ask if they can pull the heads to look at the valves, bores, manually turn it over etc. before they hand over cash...

Selling it running, should involve a tear down, careful measuring, then reassembly with proper lube and torque. And as Moriarity wisely said, a break in run period for the cam-with video documentation.

 

Several years ago I sold a 454 BBC with a complete 6-71 set up on it. I had bought a complete running model A roadster with this engine in it. The engine had less than 1,000 street miles on it. It was built by Dale Hall of Simsbury, Connecticut. Dale had an engine shop, and he was the "A" dragster NHRA champion. I knew of Dale, and his stellar reputation when I sold the engine. I had the engine in storage, put Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders ,and turned it over every month. I sold it for not much more than the blower set up was worth, as it had not been run for a few years at that time. The buyer was an engine shop owner, and I never had any complaints from him. I also gave him a 355" SBC to sweeten the deal.

 

What Jim said. There are plenty of people out there that know what to look for and smart enough to go back thru it.

I sold an engine not long ago with a hurt bottom end. The buyer didn’t bat an eye when I told them the price or the issue. They paid way more than I thought it was worth. The girlfriend priced it.

They never called back to make complain.

 

I've bought engines that sellers said were "rebuilt" and gotten crap boxes. I've also gotten engines that were amazing, and as advertised. The key is two things; what the price is, and if the seller has the oil pan off, and will let me check cylinders, and a couple rod and main bearings.
My suggestion is to have it on an engine stand that allows oil pan removal, and have the pan off. Then sell it and answer whatever questions you might get honestly. There's not much you can add if you weren't there when he built it. But you can at least let people check the work and decide if they want it. I know I'd want it if it was presented this way, and the price wasn't crazy high.

 

There are rebuilds and there are rebuilds.............The question is whether your dad was a meticulous person or just someone who threw new rings and bearings into the engine. Also, remember that you don't have to sell the assembled engine as a whole............but you don't have to disassemble it completely either. Decide what you think is a fair price for it, than add a little to it so you have some negotiating room. List it as a whole engine with whatever details you know about it and give it a couple months to sell. If you decide to part it, you may get more for it. It kinda varies with the type of engine. Often a set of heads will bring a premium price, and the short block can also bring a good price. The detail parts like a numbers intake or a certain carb or distributor can usually command some decent money as well.
I would not get into trying to fire the engine. That can create problems even if there is basically nothing wrong. Show them the running 409 that he also built as an example of his work. One thing for sure is that the engine will not decrease in value unless you let it deteriorate while stored. Often when listing parts, you will find someone who wants the whole thing, so don't disassemble anything till someone arrives with money in hand. Be willing to provide a phone number to interested parties.

 

Do you know if it went to a machine shop?
What you could do to gain some confidence in it, get a bore scope, inspect the cylinder walls for the cross hatch.
Pull the pan an check to see if undersized bearings were used. That would also give a visible look at some crank journals without too much tear down and re assembly.

 

Whatever you get for it is 100% profit, it's not like you have any money or time into it.
I can't believe many people are out looking for a 348 anyway.

 

There are lots of boats that keep wandering away from shore, and need to be properly anchored.

Actually a friend is getting ready to work on his 348 and would probably be happy to find another engine to play with, if it were local.

 

There's a small market for W-engines, but it's there.

 

Unless I've rebuilt it or I've watched it get rebuilt with my own two eyes, or unless I buy it new as a crate engine, I consider it a used engine. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it, but I work under the auspices of "trust but verify", and when buying an engine, you simply can't verify it all. As a buyer, you're taking a risk that the engine is trash and know full-well that you have no recourse from the seller in the event that the engine grenades the first time you hit the key. The price has to reflect that risk IMHO.

I see no problem in selling the engine as-is. At least that way if a buyer wants to take their chances with what's there, they don't have to assemble the engine first. But be honest about it. You have no idea what's in the engine.

 

when I brought my first motor to the machine shop to get checked out I told the guy I wanted to get this motor rebuilt. I then got a speech about rebuilt vs overhauled. if you are near Fremont it was Curt at Fremont motor parts. the fun part it needed rebuilt and was only $600.00 balanced with forged pistons back in 1980... no heads, no cam. it was a genuine LT-1. now the original carburetor is worth $600.00

got any receipts?

I'd only start it if I could break it in as stated elsewhere. take the pan and intake off.. offer to remove the heads if they are serious. that's what I'd do.

 

Put it a stand so buyers can look at all aspects. Pull one head and the pan.
If you attempt to do the cam break-in and it fails.........let someone else carry that burden.
If it does have all new internals then make a list and indicate what the local shop would charge for the parts and basic labour. Add a reasonable cost for a core engine and that total should be a good asking price.
The benefit to the buyer is that the work is finished.

 

Your information is the power to be able to sell..........

 

I see a fare amount of 348 for sell and still are. I'm not sure on price as I'm not interested in them. Now the 409 is a different question.
How much do you think it's worth to you?
Do you have the skills, time and tools to inspect it?
What is you time worth to you?

 

You can do a few simple things and learn a bit more about the engine without taking it apart if you want to.

You can check the casting numbers on the heads, intake, and block at www.348-409.com and learn about the bones of it. For example, there were several improvement to the heads over the years and some are more desirable than others.

You can look at the piston domes through a spark plug hole and see if they are low- or high-compression versions. An endoscope from HF would make that easy. You can Google or use the website above to see what they look like.

You or someone you may know could degree the cam and learn more about that.

A buyer might be more inclined to buy it ‘as-is’ if these things were known.

Cheers,

John

 

Interesting topic, I actually sold a 348 on the hamb, To a member, can't remember his name..
I bought it as a fresh engine, solid it, He fired it up... Said the cam was bad.
I refunded him $300. For a cam...
All was good.... So it's a crap shoot at best... God bless your Dad.

 

I'd have to ask if he kept receipts for machine work and parts.
Or a FEL-PRO FS8007PT3 runs about 110 bucks and that might be cheap insurance to pull it down to the short block and inspect it.

 

How long has it been sitting? The assembly lube he applied might look like pine tar by now. I'd be tempted to break it back down and check some stuff then fire it up if good and leave it in a condition to refire for potential customers.

 

To properly rebuild an engine with new pistons , valve job , machine work etc...........is going to cost $2000 or more.
So list it for sale for $2500 complete and tell the potential buyer what you know. Be willing to negotiate some but don't give it away. If it doesn't sell after several months, relist it again.

I've put things up for sale and gotten no interest. Took the ad down and waited a month or two. Relisted things and got lots of responses wanting to buy. Got something right now that I'm going to relist. Lots of interest, but no one willing to step up yet.........but I know it will sell.