Technical Allen Syncrograph - Model E-316HD Resto

FWIW, I have an Allen machine and unfortunately discovered a weak point; the vacuum gauge is a sealed unit probably with a rubber diaphragm inside. The guess that it's rubber is because the gauge failed and can't be opened for repair.

Anyone ever been inside one?

jack vines

 

Interesting. I wonder if there is a modern equivalent? Does your have the “zero” adjust knob?

 

May have been mentioned here or elsewhere, but Mfd could also be microfarad and probably not millifarad.
M (in today’s world) is Milli, ie Mv, MA, etc. Mircro is u. Ie uf for microfarad

 

More futzing. Cleaned the drive wheel with some rubbing alcohol. Seems to have worked. No issues now with it “stalling” at around 1,300 rpm.
Also, played around with the chuck keys again. Think I got it more centred. At least it seems to wobble/vibrate much less.
Found this vid of Mike from 3rd Gen. Testing the helmet style on his Sun machine. Following what he did.

 

Blocked off the right set of points.
Set rpm to 500.
Started out with 0.014” gap. Got 25 degrees of dwell.
Jumped to 0.020” gap. Got 13.5 degrees of dwell.
Next was 0.018” gap. Got 16 degrees of dwell.
Last was 0.016” gap. Got 24 degrees of dwell. Don’t think I can get the 22.5 degrees he recommends without exceeding the max gap of 0.016”.
Blocked off the left side set of points. I re-gapped the right side set of points to 0.016”, and got 34 degrees of dwell which is what he recommends. So will say this is good enough for this old “as-is” distributor.

It’s all starting to make a bit of sense to me now. Did all this “Dwell” adjustment with the middle selector switch on “CAM” position, but on the schematic in manual they call it “Cam Angle” which makes a lot more sense to me as a pure novice. Next is checking the advance…

[edit] Checking my notes, I measure 31 degrees advance on the right-hand side set of points, and not 34 degrees I stated above.

 

Did the advance test. Didn’t quite understand Mike. Even the CC couldn’t capture what he was saying, so flipped back to the other vid. Middle selector switch set to “SYN” position.

Had the base plate set at “0” on the side adjustment window/plate.

Set the degree wheel to “zero” at “bottom” strobe light. Very hard to turn wheel with the knob. It needs some attention. Did this with rpm set at 250.
Here are the results (still had left hand set of points blocked off and vacuum brake parts all removed):

500 rpm - 3.5 degrees adv
750 rpm - 8 degrees adv
1000 rpm - 10.5 degrees adv
1250 rpm - 10.5 degrees adv
1500 rpm - 10.5 degrees adv

Pretty amazing that all your mech adv is max out at say 11 degrees at only 2,000 eng rpm. I did play around with the side plate advance, and I could get another 5 degrees, but as soon as tightened down the screw, I could see the entire base plate move toward the vacuum brake port side of the hsg, and the advance would drop back down to 10 degrees. WTH!? So, advancing the base plate, was pointless.

Tried to test the vacuum brake, but as soon as I installed the piston and spring, and tightened up the nut, the advance dropped to 5 degrees from 10 degrees at 1,000 rpm. WTF!? This was no additional force on the spring from the adjusting screw.

Tried the vacuum pump. Hooked up a hose from the opening on the machine to the nipple on the drive adapter. Pulled the vacuum knob and nothing. Thinking WTF!? Check inside the cabinet, and notice the vacuum hose had come off the fitting near the drive motor. Re-attached the hose, and pulled the vacuum knob, but gage barely moved. Pulled hose off of nipple on drive adapter, and blocked with my finger, and it began to pull a vacuum. So, it must be leaking at the nippke where it is threaded into the drive adapter, or leaking between the base of the distributor and the drive adapter. Can’t see how you can create a seal good enough for a vacuum between two metal surfaces. Am I missing something?

Also realized that the “strobe” light looks dim because one of the neon bulbs is burnt out! Damn…

 

Checked the back of the distributor, and there is a rubber “o-ring” type of seal, but it is finished. It doesn’t protrude above the surface. Mating home in drive adapter with nipple for vacuum hose.

 

Going to take a break from this and get back to my speedster and install the trans tomorrow and button up the coolant system.

Honestly, although I’m still basically an idiot when it comes to this machine and distributors in general, it seems there really isn’t much you can do with the early Ford distributors, and seeing the limited mech advance with the springs, and that the vacuum brake actually reduced the advance just with the piston dragging against the plate with no force behind it other than just the spring without the doting being further compressed by the adjusting screw, really opened my eyes. Then to see the loss of the advance gained by moving the base plate to max advance position only by tightening down that screw makes you wonder. Now this may be a buggered up distributor somehow, and it ‘s not a “rebuilt” one, but all that still leaves me puzzled. Only makes sense considering the ultra-low compression of these engines.

 

Can you post more of the wiring diagram you have? I have an older Allen machine that I am still working on and contacted you about yours a while back. Mine also uses an automotive coil to "fire" the neon tube (mine only has one bulb). Its much brighter if I operate it on a 12v battery. Was thinking about swapping to a higher voltage coil to see if it would improve the visibility. Also looking to see what it may take to operate it on a 12v battery. Unfortunately I can't help much on the operation as mine is also a project.

 

Also you can buy a capacitor tester on Amazon for less than $50. It comes in handy for a lot of different repairs. Takes the guessing out of it. As old as my machine is, the capacitors tested in range for what they are rated for.

 

Will do. The schematic page in the manual I purchased was cropped, but I did find another manual on-line with the complete schematic, part list, etc, Can scan the whole thing into a pdf and send it to you if you wish, just PM me.

 

I think my Fluke meter may be capable of measuring capacitance, at least according to someone who posted here. Sort of irrelevant now, as my buddy says I should replace both caps in the tach circuit. Says he has some caps as well as potentially the neon bulbs. lol! He’s coming up to Toronto from
Chicago in a few weeks, so I’m planning on taking a trip there to meet him. It would be beyond fantastic if he has what I need. He wants me to send pics of the bulbs, so will have to remove them. Not sure if they are paired as one part or not, but seems they are encapsulated in a small white plastic box.

 

From the manual purchased on eBay.

 

From the “Parts Location Photographs and Replacement Parts List” manual I found in-line at some point. Don’t have a link to it any longer. Had two schematic pages. Didn’t look deeply into the schematics ti look for any differences.

 

Thank you for the pics.
I know a standard multimeter cant easily test a capacitor. I think because it has to charge it. The capacitor tester I bought works pretty slick. You just set the scale for a range of what the rating is and hook up the leads. It gives you a reading that should be close to what is on the cap. The other thing is you cant get a 100% reliable test unless you "take the cap out" of the wiring because the other electronics can affect it. So sometimes I just clip one lead to test and then can solder it back if its good.

 

With no vacuum connected to the advance plunger it should attempt to provide zero vacuum advance. Do you have the spring on the correct side of the plunger. Are you spinning the distributor in the right direction? CW/CCW?

For the sake of clarity and consistency you might want to only reference distributor RPM. I think a couple times you've listed engine RPM readings.

 

For the most part I can usually muddle my way thru DC wiring diagrams. For AC . . . not so much.

This is what most wiring diagrams look like to me.

 

For sure no expert here (first time test), but just watching the aforementioned vids, the advance kicks in early and the test I did seems to confirm that (3.5 degrees at 500 dist rpm or 1000 eng rpm). This was with the advance set to “0” on the side adjustment scale. I didn’t mention it, but I set the dist at 250 rpm (500 eng rpm), and I adjusted the “0” mark on the degree wheel to coincide with the bottom strobe light. So, this was the “baseline” from which all subsequent advance readings were measured.
Note, all rpm’s are distributor speed as measured with my optical tach (reflective tape was placed on the chuck) since the tach meter on my machine was not reading accurately. I didn’t mention it, and probably should have for clarification, but yes, the Ford flathead distributors turn CCW or “left” using the switch on the machine,

 

Yeah , me as well. We had to take electrical theory in mech Eng up until 2nd yr IIRC. It was the brutal math (advanced calculus), and the use of imaginary numbers that really cemented my dislike for most things electrical. I need to see/touch things to understand them. Can’t do any of that with electricity.

 

I think I recall Jim Linder (RIP) saying a FH V8 needed no more that 16/18 degrees advance or performance fell off.
Ie don’t try to set it up like a SBC/etc.

 

I do recall getting a set of different advance plates (later production years?) or something from Mike at 3rd Gen when I rebuilt my helmet style distributor to have a better advance curve compared to the stk setup. For sure with a max of 4,000 rpm, and only around 7.4;1 compression or something like that on my engine, definitely don’t need any 32 degree plus advance. Still wondering if the vacuum brake is really needed when I saw in one of the YT vids I watched they commented that folks have ran them without issues after removing the vacuum brake.