Hot Rods Am I Wrong?

For years customers have come to my shop asking for a suicide front end like the Bones cars. I have done several of the spring the axle fronts. I recently discovered a Walden front cross member in my stash for a pinched front end, offered it for sale as a Walden front cross member for a pinched suicide front end. I was promptly corrected by several telling me I was wrong with my designation of a suicide front. I was simply taking the verbage from what I had read on the Walden pinched chassis ad and what I had heard many people call the front ends on the Bones cars???????????????????????

 

I since 70s ,I always heard , said , told
Spring behind axle " suicide"

 

I always thought a suicide front end is where the axle is beyond the chassis/spring so if something breaks the chassis hits the ground rather than landing on top of the axle.

 

What he said! ^^^^^^^^^

 

What are the naysayers calling a suicide frontend?

 

I agree.
I've always heard a suicide front end had the spring perch ahead of the front cross member.


Double suicide is when the suicide front end has the tie-rod in front of the axle.

 

I've also always considered the typical T-bucket front end pictured above as the 'suicide' front end.

The other type I've always called Rolling Bones or Doane Spencer or spring behind axle -

 

My take. Always been spring over like '28-'34, spring forward like '35-'48, axle forward AKA suicide like T buckets and other hot rods. Style never differentiated between where the spring perch was located.

 

The magazine writer who coined the phrase is long gone , plus there may have been more than one , call it what you like or consult your favorite magazine writer.....

 

Suicide fronts dates back to the 1920s, kits were available to lower T's by moving axle forward, if something broke, kiss ya arse goodbye! This style was likely most dangerous on circle track cars that used Model T parts and not parallel leaf front. The term "Suicide Front" has evolved to include the style of Doane Spencer/Rolling Bones setup. Really any axle setup that places axle out in front of chassis where a spring failure would see chassis drop & dig into ground is a "Suicide Front"

 

Many years ago I was discussing suicide axles with my late father and he asked me if I knew where the term started. Of course I didn't and he explained that the term came from dirt track roadster racing. It seemed that if you were racing and the spring or the spring perch on the cross member broke, the axle and wheels would rotate around on the radius rod mount and come crashing into the cockpit and either beat the snot out of you or kill you outright. I met a few old racers years ago and they backed up my father's story. My dad used to watch roadster racing at Soldiers Field in Chicago right after the war. Apparently it happened more than they would have liked. I wouldn't know first hand because I didn't come along until late 1947 and didn't attend racing until the ripe old age of 5, at Illiana Speedway.

 

In extreme situations, aka dirt circle track racing I can see where a spring perch failure could not only send the front of the frame into the dirt but also flip the front axle up and over the chassis as you describe.

 

Take a look at some old pictures of dirt track big cars and in particular look at the front of the car. Most had a spring steel skid, purposely for keeping the frame from digging into the dirt when something broke. Better than nothing but probably not the answer for the street

 

I never even considered THAT!

 

The Bones front end setup... Lol. They welded two pieces of metal at top of the front rails trought the front axle, some sort of fusile to prevent a damage if the the spring loose or! And served as the radiator support too... I do not now if that mod can prevent something really!

 

I've done several bones style chassis. I have my own design for doing the perches thru the bones. I do not weld them. With the axle in front of the frame. I blend a 2 inch wide piece of 3/8th flat into the top of the rails over the axle. This piece of flat is drilled and tapped 3/8 coarse for the radiator and also another tapped hole that uses a short hard rubber bullet bumper to control vertical axle travel. The piece of 3/8th flat will also prevent the car from digging into the pavement in case of spring or perch problems. No Failures to date.

 

They probably did not until it happened a couple times.

Ben

 

If the spring breaks guess what happens.
Totally suicidal.

 

Suicide front ends and cowl steering, discuss!

 

Don't bring the dam cowl steering up again. After some criticism about my ad.about the proper terminology. All I was asking was if the spring behind the axle mounted into the bones was called a suicide front end. I'm 80 and it's been that way since I first got into cars in the 50's. This all stems from my ad offering a Walden pinched front cross menber for a suicide front end! In the ad for his Jitney chassis he refers to the front suspension as a suicide front? All I know is with a spring behind the axle car if the spring perch or spring breaks and the car drops to the ground bad shit is going to happen.

 

Your not wrong. Pinched frame cross member can be suicide front end or spring above axle. I have built many both ways too.

 

I had a spring pivot break while driving , the hairpin dropped down on the tie rod , by going slowly we were able to limp into a town where we found someone who was willing to help us out , not catastrophic, but it certainly gets your attention .

 

So is my frontend a "suicide"? Sort of a hybrid?

 

This all started over 100 years ago with a $16.00 bracket the Chevrolet Brothers manufactured for race cars & speedsters.

 

Just stirring the pot Gary, your reputation precedes you!

I would add that the setup in post #23 would typically be referred to as a suicide-style or suicide perch front end. Essentially any design where there isn't either a crossmember or framerails over the axle could qualify.

I built this '32 RPU and I always considered it a suicide-design. Not the way I'd do it today, but this was 25 years ago and we all live and learn. lol



And it doesn't have to be a transverse sprung setup to be considered suicide-style. Here's one of the latest chassis going together in the shop. This one will get some sort of bump stop arrangement for the axle, so perhaps it suicide-less style?

 

Maybe the simple way to think about it: if the spring or the spring mounting breaks, and your frame (or whatever is hanging below) can drop to the road, it is "suicide front suspension".

If the spring or the mounting breaks and there is something for the axle to contact which stops the frame from dropping to the road it is not suicide front suspension. It might still be spring ahead of grille design, or crossmember ahead of grille design, but those may have something that prevents the frame from dropping to the ground. Having something that contacts the axle preventing the frame dropping is what makes it not suicide front suspension.

 

Potvin: Wow, bitchin tube/torsion chassis. Always fantasized doing a torsion bar deuce highboy but never got around to it..One of my favorites was the white model A highboy tudor tub on deuce rails with torsion bars. Been around for a long time but keeps on going.

 

Potvin, that is a nice set up.

 

And another V8-60 axle! Not as rare as we would like to think…