Hot Rods An altereds only racing organization similar to the SE Gassers, any interest?

Respect Quain, but----
From were I stand and take notice, Index is growing stronger and the people in the stands dont give a flying c^&p about it, Maybe some do and moan in their beer, but soon the beer cup is empty and they enjoy the racing. How else do you explain the sudden rise in FUEL ALTEREDS??? Over 25 show up at the MM and CHRR and more are being built, all knowing that there is a 6.00 cap on the ET's, Please explain this and why the stands are not empty when they run because they run an index
In the F/A cl*** there are dual mag "transformers", new purpose built cars, and old resurected cars, The car that happened to win the MM was a 35 yr old DonLong ch***is with a 417 donovan and 12" wide tires. People dont care anymore when there is something faster in the show along with them and when they are the "Headliners" Its FUEL ALTEREDS BABY!!! and if you turn the scoreboard lights off its still the same fricken show!!! Never in my entire racing expierence have I witnessed somebody getting up and leaving the track asking for their money back when there is an index in place, the only time I have ever heard complaints is on forum postings

 

I would be interested if you don't have a trailer it center steer rule. I got to drive what I build.

That is unless you have a roadster cl*** in which case I would pull my roadster and run both my roadster and my push car. LOL I recently scored a half built and left for dead ch***is for my A/GA roadster.

 

dreracecar that is not the type of car that people hate. Have you ever gone to a national event and watched the grandstands empty when they run super gas and super comp ? Those are racer only cl***es. It is hard to watch and I ran some super gas and super rod with my old G***er only because it was my only chance to run at a points meet and national event.
Setting in the staging lanes and watching the stands empty when the super cl***es came up made me quit.
Index cl***es have their place. I ran at the Hot Rod reunion and we ran in F/Gas which at the time was a 10.00 cl*** . The A/Gas cars were on a 7.50 index so when we ran it was a handicap pro tree. My car ran 9.80's so I would lift at the first mph cone and if I got p***ed that meant the other guy broke out. No fun.
It was still bracket racing. The southeast g***ers have 3 cl***es and they run heads up . First to the finish line wins no sandbagging, no dragging the brakes, no mirror racing.
The altered could do basically the same thing, have several cl***es and really race.

 

I was hesitant to post this , only because I have asked a similar question in the past and it sort of turned into a squabble.

I'll answer some of the questions that were posed to me via pm, just so I can clear this up.
When I say this is a hobby, that's what it is. A hobby. I have no intentions of making a nickel. This is for the guys that can't afford to race every weekend and to be quite honest, I don't need guys with tons of racing experience. Why? Because it becomes too serious, too fast and then the fun gets ****ed right out of it.
I envision guys that long to drive a car, that would have been built by a kid in 1955-1964. They don't have to run in the 7.50 range, who cares? If it will run a 10-12 second 1/4 mile, that's good enough, as long as the cars are paired up and it is heads up. I really don't want to spend my kids inheritance trying to campaign a blown, nitro car. I'm not a racer, just a guy with a race car.

I just want a fun, reliable car to take me to my happy place. I could give a **** less if I don't win the finals. At the end of the day, I have a job and it's pretty serious. I worry about a lot of other peoples problems and when we go race, I want to just have fun. If someone wants to drop $100K on a race car to outrun my beater for bragging rights, they probably need to join one of the bigger organizations. For guys with a competetive nature, this all seems foreign. I get that.

I think the guys that have this same mentality will find their way here.

Just my .02 worth.
Root

 

What about Brad54's altered - that would be perfect too

 

can`t stay off this. I ran a 200 mph car in an index cl*** for awhile and at that level you pretty much have to race the track. what I`m trying to say is index/bracket racing puts more onis on the driver than stab and steer. Yes in my present car if I go against a much slower car I dial 2 to 3 tenths slower than I can run and try to dump it at the top end. That`s bracket racing and you can`t change it. On an index cl*** you both leave at the same time but you do the same thing at the big end only you don`t grab the brakes or you die. The reason I quit was running 6 seconds wasn`t worth losing my house. Choises have to be made but index/ bracket racing has kept a lot of tracks open

 

Haven't seen it. Pics? Oh yes I have......It would have to change a couple of things...

 

Not true Quain. You guys sold out just this last weekend. I think that shows a lot of love for what you have done with the S.E.G.A. I feel blessed that we can see this kind of racing again. Snowman

 

I am sure that the guys would surely kick in and start paying their entrance fees Quain. It's only fair.

 

You cannot compare national event (super cl***) racing to Nostalgia type Index racing. First and formost is that there are NO ELECTRONICS controlling the basic functions(throttle, brakes, shifting)of the cars, all must be direct input from the driver. Second is that Nostalgia index allows 3 types of car styles --dragsters, altereds, funnycars to compete on heads up pro light start having an equal chance to win or lose based on the skills of the driver and tuner. Super Cl*** is the worst type of racing known to man and one of the problems is that people compare that to what nostalgia does. There is a system now in SC/SG that counts the tire revolutions based on when the Trans ****on is released and an indicator to show you if you must speed up or slow down, so dont compare what I describe to that ****. I am very good at what I do and how I do it and have the hardware to prove it. The only wire I have on the car is the one that grounds the magneto

 

dreracer is right , one march meet I ran a 7.03 and was number 12 qualifier on a 7. index. that`s no electronics, every function controlled by me. yes I ran trans break and push ****on shift. interesting fact I ran better 60 ft without the trans break

 

Roothawg . Just make 3 index cl***es and go have fun. People will bring their cars and race.
Look at the SNDR out of Ga. They have index racing. Super Stocks , G***ers and altered and front engine dragsters.
Consider 1/8 th mile format as well as 1/4 mile.
The 6.00 ,7.00 and 8.00 1/8 th mile index cl***es are becoming very popular.

 

If there isn't any real purse and we're just doing it for fun we could do it Chicago style, let everybody make 2 hard p***es and the two fastest meet in the final for each cl***. That method will insure that over half the field will see more track time than an index will.
Maybe 4 cl***es, an 8-71 blown cl***; 6-71 blown; smallblock unblown and an inline 6 cylinder, perhaps an optional flattie cl***. Blown cl***es could have tire restriction and selectively add weight to equalize compe***ors.
Having run a compe***ive blown car about 2 hard p***es is a ton of work, you won't want to run 4 or 5 rounds of eliminations.

 

I am not building the ***ociation and perhaps my thoughts on cl***es aren't worth much but if it were me I would not get too caught up on cl***es and restrictions.

Keep it simple. break cl***es two ways, weight/displacement and power adder/no power adder. IE Boosted cars or not boosted cars. Run 'em heads up. Easy squeezy.

Personally my compe***ive days are gone. I have done the run it (hopefully on Sunday) tear it down on Monday and back at the track by Saturday deal. If I am going to run one it is going to be an I enjoy it deal not a job. if I come out on top I'm good and if I don't I am still good. I normally am racing the guy behind the wheel of my car anyway.

That said keep me posted. if I can help I will.

 

I hear ya ******.

 

It would be cool if it all works out. Heads up racing is no joke though. My guess is fastest SEG guys are running a mid 5 second 1/8 mile. The same engine in an altered is going low 5s? That's pretty quick. Quicker than me. The other part of the deal, and Quain has mentioned it, is the entertainment factor. SEG cars wheel stand off the line and on gear changes. It's a show. Dry hops. Big burnouts. All of that needs to be part of a successful altered show too, at least from a fan's view.

 

Dave, We won't be going that fast. You know me, I build junkyard motors, of course I may be the slowest car out there.

 

I hear you. Neither one of us would be compe***ive if anyone was serious about being quick. I do like the entertainment aspect to of the deal though. Both as participant and a spectator.

 

Having been on both sides of the fence as a car builder and driver and as a spectator , if your calling this an alter cl*** and your not blaseing the tires half track and doing your best Wild Willy impersonation , the fans are just seeing street roadster's and you will not fill the bleechers and with no spectators you will have no track to run. And please don't take my remarks as anything more than an observation , nothing more. I would do anything if we could go back to the early 60's when guys like my uncle Doug took what he could come up with minimal tools and space and ran it at union grove only to find out how much faster it was from last week. now it is about compe***ion and winning . I hope you find away to have fun with your cars. That is all that matters anyhow ! Larry

 

Having helped a friend run a C/Alt. chopped 31 Model A coupe in 1969 . Hilborn injected 302 Chevy center steer . 3 speed running second and high. It was a push start car that we ran at Motor City Dragway. I have a little insight to the original altered.
We ran for a cl*** trophy and no money. It was for bragging rights and no money.
That car was bought for $2500 with a trailer from a guy who owned a welding shop and didn't have time to race.
The cars were losing their popularity then because the factory was pumping out new cars that could be financed and raced. You could buy a 69 Nova 396/375 at the Chevy dealer in Marine City for $2850 out the door. Add a set of traction bars and headers and you could be in the 12's. There was 25 brand new cars to every one of the altereds.
The g***ers were also taking a hit in popularity back then. Now they are back in all forms original and modern copies that have parts that no real G***er in the 60's could even imagine.
Trying to revive an altered cl*** that will conform to the old way will require a dedication that very few people have. You can either have real cl*** or a sorta cl*** . I don't think you can be a stand alone event without some blown cars. People just won't come to see some slow old cars.

 

This is a kick*** idea. I'd love to start building a gl*** bodied altered once I get out of school. oj got it perfect in post 73. Honestly if I only get to run once I wouldn't have much incentive to drive far and deal with towing a car whereas I could just be a spectator. Probably would run a junkyard small block chevy unblown and a powerglide and 9 inch or 8-3/4 at least until I could swing a nice 4-71 blower and go through the engine. Talked to my dad about it and he was really into it as well. So you may see him build a car in the future for it.

 

If it's something you believe in and can make happen, do it. You'll never regret trying, if you don't try you'll always wonder if it would have worked or not. I've missed a lot of opportunities in life because I am not a gambler and usually take the path of the known results. Those that take the gambles are the ones that are remembered, not guys like me that blend in with the crowd.

 

You guys think we'd be able to run without a firesuit and all that? Helmet I know I'd need but firesuits aren't available locally so I can try them on to figure out my size. Hate to order a bunch before I get 1 that fit. Rather have the money tied up in my car, ya know.

 

Look at the Speedway race catalog. It tells you how to measure for a firesuit.

 

I'd be interested in building an altered if it looked like it existed in 1963. I think if you limit it to 9" tires and 6lb/cu. in., with heads that existed in 1963, flattop pistons, a single 750 carb or dual 4s of afb size or less you could end up with enough cars to make it work. I think one heads up cl*** with the scoreboards turned off would be enough.
I wouldn't mind to pay a fee to enter. I would just like to find an affordable way to run heads up.

 

I would like to see what my 409 would do in one.
It pushes my 3620 # BelAir to the low to mid 12s.

 

I will probably go with either a 12" or a 10" tire rule.

 

The only reason I suggested the 9" tire was to lower cost and add a little finesse to the cl***. My friends that run in circles have found that if you limit the tire you give the thinkers instead of the dollars the edge. NHRA stockers are running in the 8s on a 9" tire.
Just my $.o2.
Pete

 

Whew!! Lot to take in here--here is my take based on last few years experience with a Front engine dragster
hats off to Quain! Really--he has done one hell of a job to get HIS deal to where it is--The show is awesome and fans are happy--make no mistake it is HIS deal--his rules--his vision--his word rules--I have NO problem with that--after all his blood , sweat, tears, and most of all his $$$$$$$
I built my FED and joined a dragster only club--Southern Slingshots--they had had a few good years of doing near the same thing with FED's Tracks at that time were doing OK and they booked in as many cars as promoter wanted to pay for--drivers all got paid enough to cover all expenses--everybody was happy---but clubs usually turn out to be a PIA sooner or later as you have people involved--I ran several races with the club after I finished my car--got paid--all went well then--The dreaded "club issues" arose--folks squabbled--members dissented--tracks slowed down bookings-- about that time--money got tighter---club dissolved--everybody went home with a car and no place to run and have fun. That club never had many rules except safety--they had cars with billet wheels, MSD's etc I think fans were pretty forgiving and it went OK like that but every now and then a car stuck out like a sore thumb and so I do understand Quains rules package but.....
It is a GIANT task to do what Quain has done and-- the tighter the rules the more folks they exclude
Look at the Meltdown Drags---they have cl*** and safety rules--and really smart rules like no billet--as period correct as possible but you can make a few changes to almost any car and race with them--Guess what?? They are a smoking success!!!! Only problem is they are a real haul to attend if you are not close by---these days you have to commit to a wek off work, a LONG haul--lots of tow fuel--high hotels and meals--and then you may get there and get rained out--Big risk for average hobby guy--so I would LOVE to see similar events spread out around the country and hopefully the SE USA --- Look at Bowling Green--swamped with attendance but mixing show and race takes a BIG club and all year long planning
Look at Steel in Motion--GREAT show and easy breezy race rules---run what ya brung--most laid back and fun event I have ever had the pleasure to attend--It should be the model--no rules --just right--laid back--FUN--none of that --Ya can't park there kind of mess like with more formal bigger events
So...looking at the events that DRAW attendance...draw paying lookers---seeing where they are at--how it is working for them--what it really takes to pull it off is where to look for answers on this altered question--and where other groups like the front engine dragster guys, and g***ers and pseudo g***ers etc --an event where they all can get together and make the best show possible is the answer--so everyone wanting to start a new event should think about rules--but relaxed just enough to get all the cars at the tracks---do everything possible to "keep it real" but not exclude any decent car
Quain was gracious and allowed a few of us FED guys in his neighborhood to run between g***er rounds --It was fun to race in front of such crowds and we did put on a race not a test n tune-- judging from how many visitors we got in the pits I would say we were popular--Thanks Quain

So there are some of my thoughts--I really think an altered only deal is going to be a giant uphill battle--a smarter move would be decently period correct cars from the era--whatever you show up with --casual day of fun--easy on the rules heavy on the fun aspect and most of all a GREAT show for the paying fans--because if they don't show--it won't go!
Clubs seem to always go south sooner than later--a King like Quain is the answer--just him and track owner--we just race--that is our job--let him do the rest