Technical Another valvetrain noise

@wheeltramp brian
Comp Heads , not aware of maybe they do make heads , Now .
Hmmm I doubt Titanium valve's and No name heads
What size engine ?
Carb 1,000 cfm
355 8,000 plus Rpms ,, shaft rocker where needed ,
Those rocker 6,500 max & pushing it
With 180-200 on seat .
220 plus cfm plus heads
18-15 deg head , 2.08 , 2.10
406 - 427 7,000 ish rpms needs a Billet rocker , with like Good 23-18 deg head
220 plus cfm
16 titanium valves is close to $2,000.00
Plus ,,, & a set of $200 rockers ,
Unless Valve's Used / Free

 

Somebody screwed up ! fortunate it wasn't run long enough to drop a valve.

 

I'll get the motor build sheet tonight and see exactly what's in there.

 

@wheeltramp brian
Just seem's over done on Vale's
$2000.00 Non race engine ?
Cheap rockers
Not billet or a shaft style
Looks to have a performer style intake
& those square style cast iron exhaust manifold?
Dart and Brodx ,ATF are marked unless ground off

 

The car was built as a drag strip car then turned into a street car. The motor is a three eighty three with aluminum heads And I remember seeing the Dyno sheet.It was like four hundred and forty horsepower or so. I'll know tonight for sure.

 

Stuff is not adding up .
Unless this was some very high dollar race engine or a set of high dollar race head some one got that knew nothing about , nobody that knew anything built a street SBC ( assuming this is a street car ) with titanium valves on a set of no name heads and then used what appear to be basic average steel retainers on this. Titanium valves are used in very high RPM race only engines and then with very light weight valve train to go with it and there generally in a set of very very expensive heads with like a 2.08 or bigger intake . Its going have a big solid roller cam and all the other expensive valve train bits to go with it . There would be zero reason to run a titanium valve on a SBC unless its going over 7000 RPM or so and more likely 8,000 RPM . I cant recall the last time I saw Titanium valves in in a SBC like in a sprint car that did not have a shaft rocker set up and its been even longer since I saw titanium valves in a sprint car that did not at least have stud girdle . ( Likely around 1994 or so )

Im not sure a picture could be taken that shows less of the heads . there is a Part number on them but its not readable in the picture . It looks like what you see on cheap China casting. Almost anything worth putting a set of titanium valves in is going to have some identify features . RHS years ago did some unmarked castings for special customers like Joe Geartie and others who built sprint car engines according to RHS ( I have a set ) but there a max effort type deal.
Comp does not make heads to my knowledge.

These days you can get 7/16' studs and adjustable guide plates and everting shown in that pic on a set of $1200 ebay heads that have intake valves that are like $80 a set or less in other words cheap crap . If the owner had the engine built or knows any of the details he's going to know if he paid for titanium valves on what would be about a $4000 set of heads likely. Is it possible some one bought a set of old race heads at a swap meet and slapped them on not knowing ?? Sure . I have a couple sets of who know what was done on them heads. but the the valve spring diameter is massive and you would know there not some cheap no name Ebay or Speed Master or even Blueprint type stuff .

Titanium valves need lash caps and there for a high RPM short life race engine .
Same with Titanium retainers that wear out as well as keepers , the best lighter weight street able retainers are the thinner lighter weight tool steel retainers .

Titanium is not magnetic so unless they have a built in steel cap or tip a magnet should not stick to them and that would be the first test . Pull the springs and stick a magnet on the stem .

My guess if this is not a roller cam is you have a lobe going flat that lead to valve clearance and then the rockers hammering on the valves and there a cheap valve .
you have metal in the engine at least from the wear on the valves and rockers Id be cutting the filter apart minimum . Id pull the heads and replace the valves minimum and the rockers are junk . get a good pick of the part number.
the intake sealing area and how its shaped can also help sort out the brand of heads as can if there is extra holes for a Vortec intake once the manifold is off .
Also check for a bent push rod that would have added clearance and caused hammering .

What's the history of the engine, how long ago was it built and by whom?
Older aluminum race heads have numbers stamped not done with little dots.
like you see with newer heads like on the blue prints and Speed master and such .
generally is there a high quality head then the company is proud enough to mark them some how .

MY guess is cheap heads and cheap valves and maybe a cam issue .

 

I agree. Unless these were some swap meet find and even then they would be marked if they were worth titanium valves and there would be other signs like major porting , bigger spring pockets and so on . My guess is cheap heads and cheap valves .
better pics would help narrow it down . A lot of the cheap castings are a old Dart copy.

 

I think I can read CNC in the middle of the part number on the head if so then perhpas these are a better quality head with CNC ports or maybe its jsut the chambers .

Any info on the other side head that's read able .

Its got a interesting valve keepers in those retainers as well . Hmmm

 

@1biggun
Valve locks are so you can use Lash cap

 

New rocker arm, push rod and a lash cap and be right down the road in 30 minutes..

 

Yes, but probably not a full revolution, like you may be thinking. More like a bike or car tire when it's rolled forward a couple inches, then rolled back. It will keep walking the same area, especially if hyd (no lash).

 

Can't upload the pics fir the build sheet.383,roller cam,pro comp heads,get more specs in a bit

 

@wheeltramp brian since you said 'a customer' and 'build sheet' I'm guessing this is a paying customer that could comeback.
I'd start with a solid education of the customer and a CYA for yourself. I could be fixed quick like @jimmy six says, but the comeback could ruin your shop. Explain that with your name on the last repair bill, you want the labor covered to check everything and confirm, then time to find a root cause and suggest a course of action, which may include a big parts list and time.
At the very least one valve, R&I the head, a rocker, oil & filter and that's just the obvious stuff right now.

 

Snap a pic of it with your cel phone and upload the pic

 

Has anyone mentioned the pushrod tip condition as yet?
It definitely looks like there's a lubrication problem and the center hole appears to be possibly blocked/restricted.
We used to have this happen on our race SBC up until when we started applying assembly lube to the pushrod tip prior to our first start-up for the day.

 

Crappy pics of engine sheets,doesn't seem like anything crazy

 

Valves that rotate????? Never heard of such a thing? How would the keepers stay in place if they rotated?

As for lash caps, it might fix the bad end of the valves, but still need new rockers. And then there's the question of where are all those little pieces of metal that chipped off those valve stems at now? How long before they eat up bearings? And what about the oiling issues? New lash caps might get eaten up quickly if the oiling isn't better to protect them.

 

This is how. They set in the spring pocket of the head (exhaust only). Really not used in modified engines.

 

Older stock engines did
A slow rotation during use.

 

Mild 383 , No titanium ,
Unless free , used , No charge .
Because $5,200 not knocking engine .
Heads cfm's decent 210 cfm for that 383.
Cut filter open ,
Drain oil ,
What the oil pressure?
Rule is 10 psi for every 1000 rpms .
Most like to see 45 plus @ idle .
Block off drain backs in heads clean / flush heads using magnet collect debris
Then take glue small round magnets
@ near oil drains ,
Install lash caps or whole set ,
2 rocker's or compleat set
R & R all check
Inspect push rods ,
Check geometry ,corrective as needed
Button it up and drive it

 

A lot of heavy duty gas engines used valve rotators. The spring cap would rotate the valve a little each time the valve was opened and closed.

 

The customer talked to the machine shop that actually built the motor and they said that they don't use these rocker arms or even the heads anymore because of problems. The guy said if it was him he would just buy new heads and a new set of rockers and be done with it. What Me and the customer are thinking is get a new set of rockers And lash caps that are eighty thousand thick, So I will need push rods that much longer. I think that should work out fine. I measured
For the lash caps And there's enough clearance on top of the valve stem to work properly.

 

Just looking around ,
Entry level decent full rollers rocker
Are $500 up Now
Billet & Chromoly

 

The place that built the motor Skip White, recommended scorpion Rockers as that's what they use now. About 450 a set.

 

Skip white , Tennessee ?
If so things do not look right ,
Like parts where miss matched changed around after leaving S-W,

I see cheap parts being sold in 632 bbc's

Not my $$
I think this a better choice
Pro Magnums ,
I have turned over 7,000 rpms
On 220 seat pressure , iffy up there .
Harlan and Sharps unless The quality has went down in the last 25 years

Scorpion Rockers is cheap rocker
Unless there another Scorpion,
Seem to remember counterfeit made.

 

At first, the guy said they didn't build the motor and then my friend showed him the build sheet and receipt and he says oh yeah, and that guy still works here that built it. Wow, we did a lot of different stuff back then

 

I've got the parts ordered and they'll be here tomorrow.I'll let you guys know how it works.

 

This is mostly over my head, but I'm paying attention anyway. Keep the details coming.

 

The engine is from 2013 and is a Sip White ( Which Skip White thats all over ebay is the questions id ask not that it matters . Apparently there is a feud between these two guys )
Chinese Pro comp heads are what I believe Skip White performance sold before they started selling a different casting that is the NKB ( new kid on the block ) China casting .
there not going to be Titanium valves unless some one stuck them in there well after the engine was built . Those heads were about a $800 set of heads back when sold if that .


I think all there 383 and bigger use AFR enforcer heads these days . at least that is what I thought I read on there Ebay ad recently .
I was going to use the Wisco Pistons they sell as they claimed there made special for them but I have seen the same deck height ones sold else were at least a few years back.

It has comp cams 10 degree valve locks instead of the common 7 degree stock type stuff and yes those locks are recessed for a lash cap but the valves should not need them .

COMP Cams Super Valve Locks

COMP Cams Super valve locks are wider-angled 10 degree locks. They distribute the ever-increasing valve spring loads over the retainer better than typical 7 degree locks by reducing the chance of "pull-through" failure. They are precision-machined for accuracy and are available for many popular valve sizes with or without a lash cap recess. Super valve locks will fit any COMP Cams 10 degree retainer and are recommended for all race applications due to their superior strength.

Features:

• Valve Stem Diameter (in.): 0.344 in.
• Valve Stem Diameter (mm): 8.74mm
• Lock Style: 10 degree
• Lock Groove Quantity: 1-groove
• Lock Material: Hardened steel
• Manufacturing Process: Machined
• Recessed for Lash Cap: Yes
• Quantity: Sold as a set of 32.

 

I noted the they ran it with his carb and distributer on the paper work . I thought that was interesting .
Stuff was a lot different even 12 years ago .
Those heads did not have a great reputation and its why they changed to a supposedly better one . believe there the same as the crapy Speed master and might even changed names to speed master . Its hard to keep up with all the musical China head stuff that keeps changing there names . Pretty sure Pro comp / PCE / Procomp electronics is now sold as Speedmaster and there not great .

If it was my engine id pull the heads and at least change the valves out and check the heads over while I was at it . You drop a valve and its all over . That valve took a beating and may have been hot to boot . not worth it when for about $200 in parts yu could have new valves and gaskets in it . My worthless opinion .

I know of a Pro Comp BBC head that dropped a valve and cot the guy about $7000