Featured Technical Another valvetrain noise

My friend wants to put the valve caps,new pushrods, and rockers on,its up to him. I'd probably do the same too.parts will be in tomorrow, and I'll report back

 

Best of luck, @wheeltramp brian
Please make sure your friend understands this is a patch, not a freshen or rebuild!

 

He knows

 

Sorry to say this but a lot of red flags being are ignored with this one.

 

Growing up in my uncles machine/race shop and still building engines 45 years later, and employed at GE (circa 1991) where we get to see ALL types of metal and NDT testing and see some things destruct on their own demise.... i see 3 things and there mentioned above..... 1) lubrication...2) material hardess/compatability 3) most obvious in 1st pic is misalighnment of the rocker stud and the valve guide...The wear pattern shows their not parallel... Probably very common of the MASS produced chinky junk.... JMO

 

Just two curiosity question. Have you cut the oil filter open? Do you plan to pump some kind of flush through the oil system?

 

I'm curious to know how many miles are on that engine. I have a similar setup (but 406) from the same supplier, acquired in about 2015. My rockers have a girdle. I have about 4000 miles on it, and so far it runs great. I do treat it rather gently though, most of the time!

Chris

 

to answer some questions. oil pressure is great,runs great with plenty of power, A couple of rockers were crooked because of the adjustable guide plates that I will loosen the studs and move them So they line up correctly on the valve tip. I did drain the oil and maybe I'll cut the filter open today.If I still have it I may have thrown it out. I did find a couple noticeable metal shavings on the driver's side head where the oil pools up near the back.

 

I am dealing with a similar situation as yours right now.

Customer brings me his car with a new 383 SBC Gen II block with excessive valve train noise.
Wants me to readjust.

Supposedly has a Lunati Bootlegger cam, Hyd. roller.
Full steel roller rockers, like Comp Cam Pro Magnum at almost $500.00 for a set, but not.
Found the same ones on Ebay for $190.00 for a set of 16 with poly locks. So obviously offshore shitty parts.
Gen I type Aluminum heads that say HRC on the front. I cannot identify or find that brand on the net anywhere.

As far as I am concerned, all 16 are making noise and a lot of noise.

Pull the valve covers and inspect.
No noticeable loose ones but Exhaust rocker arm on Cyl. #2 was extremely crooked and ran off the tip on the valve stem. Chewed up the rocker roller and some of the tip of the valve stem.
Took off Cyl #2 intake and exhaust rocker arms, can't see anything wrong with the push rods or the seats in the two rocker arms.

So, to try and save pulling the engine apart, decided to replace the bad rocker arm, dress the valve stem best possible, readjust the nonadjustable guide plate to a happy medium between the intake and exhaust.
Re-adjust all the valves and put back together and see what happens.

Still excessive noise, just like before.

Decided to pull the left valve cover and run the engine.
First thing I noticed was it took almost 3 minutes for any oil to come out of the push rods at idle.
Then just kind of flows out, no flinging/spitting. Higher RPM flows more, but not what I think is normal.
I don't think there is even enough oil to lube the roller tip adequately.
The oil pressure gauge says 50 PSI at idle.

So now I questioned if the engine was built with oil restrictors in the lifter galleys to limit top end oil, like drag racers do.

Owner talked to the engine builder and sent them a video of it running with the valve cover off.
They said they don't install restrictors in the lifter galleys. Also said they think the oil flow is ok.

The last I heard, the engine builder is sending a different set of rocker arms to install.

I don't think changing the rockers is going to fix it, we will see.

What I think the problem is, is there is either not enough oil pressure/ volume to the lifters and they are bleeding down while opening the valves or maybe poor quality lifters?
We will see.

Bill

 

Cut the oil filter open and didn't see anything alarming. What I did notice is that the paper inside the filter was hard I figured it would be soft being covered In oil. Was a wix filter. I got all the new parts installed and it's quiet and runs good. It's 95° in the shop.I think I'll get out of here

 

Something I noticed when the engine is running with the valve covers off is there really isn't much oil coming out of the top

end and it does take a while for it to get there.

 

@justpassinthru
Do you know if Oem roller lifter
Or link lifters

Or correct Lifter ?
Oil hole location in lifter .

Afew years ago , I had a engine builder
I know put a long block together after some machine work , Me being Lazy
He did not realize small base circle cam
I supplied , & he installed wrong lifter .
Result was oil bleeding off when cam on base , bottom of lifter bore

 

Late style roller cam block with lifter guide plates and bolt in spider retainer

 

Heck. If ya cut open a filter what ya gonna do if ya find something ya don’t like.

fix the problem and run it till it doesn’t.

 

I've never cut open a filter before,did it just to do it. Probably never do it again

 

Its a 30 second deal with a filter cutter and a utility knife . I use one more on heavy equipment than hot rods these days. Any time you have weird stuff going on like this its a good way to see if you have wear in other areas .
Had one half full of blue silicone bits a few weeks ago on a skid steer . It backed up my suspicion the customer had been inside the engine since it was new and was lying

Hopefully your fix stays fixed.

 

It’s because I run 30w non detergent oil……

 

Wix filters have changed ownership and there may be some quality issues.Apparently you need to check center tube to see if louvers are open. could cause oil pressure problems.
wix-filters-still-good.382321

John

 

If a race engine, it could have oil restrictors in the oil galleys. Just a thought, common practice to prevent excess oiling top end, more oil to crank.

 

No way I could leave those valves in a motor after a warning like this, time will tell.

 

After spending a few years as an aircraft mechanic I cut every oil filter I pull off open. Let's you know what's going on inside, before something bad happens...

 

Friend of mine cut one open.
Got worried about his engine.

I was like “yank it or cruise it”
He put another filter on it and forgot about it.

if I ever ride in an airplane, I hope the mechanic cuts em open. Hard to just pull over with aircraft.

 

I've been dealing with what I assume to be lifter noise or something very similar to lifter noise on a 454; bored over .030", hydraulic roller cam, everything else new. I had not much oil to the rocker arms, then installed a high flow oil pump. Oil flow to top is much better. I use 20w50 oil. It's been much better but I still have some lifter noise. I first used Comp lifters then switched to Johnson. It runs great, actually pretty fast in '66 Impala, so not a light car. It just bugs me that I can't get that last of noise out of it.
Wheeltramp Brian good luck on this one. Sounds like you got it. I hope it doesn't come back.

 

Build sheet says "roller cam" AND "flat tappet cam". I'm know I'm anal, but that indicates slackness of effort. I'm guessing these engines are typically just slapped together from parts without much inspection, fine-tuning or massaging.

 

I'm sure they are just slapped together. The customer is happy and knows that it's just a Quick fix and we'll see what happens down the road.