I just bought a model a and I want to get rid of the stock frame in favor of a 32 frame. I have a buyer lined up and another member suggested keeping the stock frame because I have a title to go with it. Any reason I'd want to keep it? I wouldn't be using it either way, but I figured I'd ask. I know I'm kind of answering my own question but I wanted to see if anyone more experienced had a "you have to keep it because of this" piece of advice. Thanks guys. Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
Ya you should keep it. How are you going to get your car registered? What are you going to do when the cops or dmv want to see your vin number. Also if you have answers for those questions. What are you going to do when you find an A body that doesnt have a frame or title?
Pa rules are vastly different from Cali. In Pa. all you need is a bill of sale for the body or other proof of ownership such as referral to the original title. Along with receipts for all major components in the car will get you a Pa. street rod title and vin. plate in about two weeks for about $125. There is no posting of Bond or anything else here. I never saw the value of purchasing a title in Pa. except if you wanted the car to carry factory paper for some reason. Street Rod titles and plates in Pa. carry no restrictions and are treated just like any other car, ( costs the same for plates, yearly safety inspections etc.). It is not difficult to do so here. I realize in Cali. it's a different story.
Thanks. I did some calling today. A few inspection guys and the Penna State Police. They told me essentially the same thing. Thanks for the reply! Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
I just have to post here.... Pa is one of the more hot rod friendly states in the union. We are fortunate enough to be under some sensible laws that keep total crap off the street but allow for lots of creativity and promote home builders. Many places are much more restricted. We can thank our former Governor, I believe it was Ed Rendell, (my politics sucks, I can never remember who's in office), who wheeled around the capitol in a wicked '34 coupe. Until then we had to have bumpers and fenders etc. We now operate under the SEMA suggested legislation. A good example of SEMA/SAM working for us and car guys showing politicians what needs to be done. Good luck with the project.
grind off the numbers from the frame and sell it. keep the title and punch #'s into your 32 frame. legal? dunno but thats what i'd do. u want to register it as an A.
PA must have a way to register a "street rod" that has no VIN or paperwork and has a repro frame. I'm assuming the state would assign it's own numbers and stamp those into your new frame. Look into this route, have new numbers for your new frame, and sell the model A frame and it's matching title to someone that will use it. That's probably the most legal method and it avoids potential problems down the road if you decide to sell the car outside PA.
This peaked my interest since I have dealt with the issue before and lost big time. I have a friend nearby with a a 56 F100 without title and he's ready to let it go super reasonalbly but the Title issue has me frozen on it so far. "Goggled" and found this which says pre-48 vehicles - which kills it for the 56 - but it might help you decide what to do. http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-strv.pdf let us know - good luck! rg
Koz - I need to talk to you sometime. Evidently you know the right way to do this with the least hassle. I have more than one friend who have had a lot of trouble getting their street rod titles, and it took more like 3 months and several resubmissions of the paperwork to finally get them. I'm going to need help myself for a car I'm working on, and I would like to talk to you about it.
Boy, Pa sure has changed since the time I left there in the early 80's. One of the reasons I left (besides that white stuff in the winter ) was the overly restrictive vehicle laws. Back then you couldn't modify a car in any respect and have it legal. Glad to see Pa out of the dark ages. Don
In respect to the last four posts. Pa requires proof of ownership and sales tax paid on all major components of the vehicle. You send copies of your receipts for the components, and they will accept a handwritten bill of sale signed by the seller of the component. I've sent in copies of receipts on a piece of swap meet cardboard with no problems. They just want some assurance that you're not using stolen parts. You must pay tax on the major components, which you've probably done already. I run at least one title a month and typical turnaround is two weeks. I've only had one returned for resubmission because I couldn't add right. Not their fault. PennDot knows their rods contrary to common belief. They require four photos of the car and are very specific about what they require on the photos. You are allowed to submit addition photos for review. I always submit additional pics of the fuel tank and fuel filler, mufflers, and parking lights. The windows must be up in the pics to show tint and I also add a pic of a tape measure showing windshield height, 7" on a straight, 11" on a sloped windshield. There is a supplemental check list published by PennDot detailing the most commonly screwed up stuff for titling, "Supplemental Equipment Checklist for Street Rod Applications", that must be completed and signed by the inspection mechanic for your vehicle. You do not need to grind any serial # off or purchase any title. Doing so is a Federal crime. Just save your receipts and you don't need anything else. Obviously the car needs to pass inspection. I use Marge at Hawk Mountain Inspections as my Notary. She is the best I know of and we never have problems. If any one likes I can PM her #. She is very busy so don't expect her to spend an hour on the phone with you for free but she will be glad to process for you including the inspection process. They are the best I know of at this stuff and since they do no rod work in house, only inspections, they have no reason to look for stuff to "fix" to enhance their bottom line. They will tell you if it will pass before submission, and you can take care of any problems ahead of time. Get your ducks in line upfront and your title will be in your hands in a timely manner. PennDot can spot a POS in a second and will make your life hell if you don't play by the rules. If your car is half decent and road safe it will pass easily. Shout out if anybody needs help. I probably can help or at least point you in the right direction. I just want to add...... Stamping, defacing, or transferring any vin to another vehicle or frame is a Federal crime!!!!!! A "friend" of mine did 6 years for doing that on some 'Vettes. They weren't stolen but he was patching them together from wrecks and reselling. It is my understanding you cannot do this in any state. In Pa. the State Police will confinscate any vehicle with an altered vin. I understand it is damn near impossible to get it back. It is so easy to get a legal title I urge anyone who thinks they are going to beat the system to reconsider.
I might add---they passed mine with lakes-style headers (with baffles) and no down-pipes ,BUT I had to wrap them for the pictures.
Maybe what you would do, but doesn't seem to offer any benefit to anyone, given the description of the process in PA. In additon to which, it is a felony to alter or transfer vehicle ID numbers. Seems to me an "A" frame and title with matching serial number has the greatest value and no risk. Ray
The real question is what are you going to do for a title for your model A on a 32 frame? As your title does not go to that body that you are keeping, It follows the Frame and matching engine. Guys who do not know any better do this all the time, They buy a model A and put it on ASC rails, then drop a late model motor in it and they try and register it with the stock model A title. And that is a NO GO! Sure you might be able to slide it through, And go on about your way just as happy as can be for a while. However here is where the trouble starts. (A) when a educated Cop stops you and inspects your ride and knows it is not correct (they can impound it) and you might not get it back. or (B) the guy you sold the frame to Has the Vin checked in his state and gets a title for it. Now you have 2 cars using the same Vin number, (that was never a problem years ago, but now we have computers) and the same goes for the guy who has the original engine. He can get a title issued to him with that same number as well. Bottomline is Your out! I have seen this all happen before, As I have parted out many old cars over the years. Also one other thing to keep in mind that some might think is No big deal, However Since I have seen 2 guys Go to jail personally, I know for a fact it is a big deal. And that is RESTAMPING Vin numbers is a federal Crime!!...It is called "tampering" and carrys a 3-5 year sentence. So my advice would be to part the frame out, sell the crossmembers, front horns etc (all that stuff is worth more than the whole frame anyhow) cut the section out that has the Vin on it and weld it into your New 32 frame. that would be basicly modifying your model A frame to look like a 32 frame. And athough it is a fine line, You did not break any laws (that I know of anyhow) goodluck!!......Also If you plan on using a original 32 frame then go ahead and sell the model A frame and title, And use the 32 numbers. As like I said, the title follows the frame, Not the body.
You might do well to follow Ray's suggestion and keep the stock frame/rolling chassis with the title and run the car through the Pa inspection process and then sell the frame with clear matching title for a premium.
Once again. Cowtown above is absolutely right down to the part about cutting out the vin and transferring it. This is illegal under the Federal statutes as well. You can sell the frame and title together. Legally, according to my Attorney, you cannot just sell the title. You do not need any vin on the frame or elsewhere to obtain a Pa. "SR" title. You car will still be noted on the title as the car it most closely represents i.e. '29 Ford etc. It will carry an SR prefix on the vin.which makes it exempt from fender, bumper, and a bunch of other stuff requirements. In Pa. you can only do this on cars which represent vehicles manufactured prior to 1948. This includes 'glass cars and Brookvilles and the like. When you get your title back it includes a vin. plate that must be riveted to the firewall. This then follows the car from then on as this cars vin. I know other states are different, but all the states that have adopted the SEMA based stuff work this way.
I usually drive 'em only because its only a 1/2 mile from my shop. I shouldn't but..... Your not supposed to but we all do some dumb stuff.
Just a curious question here: On registering a '32 frame with '32 numbers: Now, there are MORE than 3 times as many '32s registered than were ever produced. With the spread of actual '32 frame numbers, how do you get say, 30,000 numbers out of a spread of say, 10,000? It's a legitimate question.
In Pa. the numbers are assigned by sequence. Hence you will not have a '32 sequenced # but it will be registered as a '32 Ford even though Ford had nothing to do with say a Brookville car. The Vin. you get from the state, in Pa. at least, is created by their system. I would assume that if you wanted a vin. that was correct you would need to purchase a real '32 to get the Vin. Never been that important to me as to what the Vin. was anyway. If it's that important there would be the possibility of repoped cars being passed off as legit tin which they should not. Let's face it, most people aren't going to care. If it is important then you need to put up the cash to do so.
My Brookville is registered as a '32 Ford. For some reason that pleased me but I have no idea how they work that out other than registration was short and simple and cheap.
I Disagree with this, You will hear alot of guys say this, But they do not have info to back it up, And it is normally said to point out the fact of all the aftermarket 32's out there. As far as Real 32 roadsters and coupe's etc. More were Scraped, destroyed, Or made into race cars, Than are still registered today. hence leaving many unregistered real 32 ford numbers to be used on a new build, Not to mention the canadian fords where records weren't kept all that well. Also I have bought some 32 projects over the years with clear 1932 ford title but it will have a bogus made up Vin number that is not even close to the real production numbers.
I seriously doubt that. There were approximately 281000 Deuce passenger cars produced (this excludes pickups, trucks, and sedan deliveries). Multiply that by 3 and you wind up with approximately 845000. No way there are that many registered now. I would also doubt that there are even 281000 registered currently.
I admit, I too am partial to A rails. A pic of my old Brookville bodied roadster..... And one I just did for Henry on A rails.... Although very different cars I think they both have the "look".
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