I'd like to know all about Propane and Propane accessories. American Hotrod style please. I know they use it in Australia but I'm looking for local $ource$ and experience SO, any of yous guys running Propane either on a rod or custom or just an old car or riding mower?
There is zero lubrication in a compressed gas. It's hard on guides. There are a lot of people that used to run it in their oilfield trucks etc. around here. The price on it fluctuates with the weather. It can double in price overnight.....I wouldn't even consider it.
DrJ, My Pops said he used to do the conversions over in mexico in the 70s, People still run it there. I wonder if you got a coversion would you be able to use your your hot rod in the carpool lane, you know theres that new law in Ca where electrics and natural gas car can run single passenger in the carpool lane
Conversions are simple, you can always go with the kits. Run about 400-700 hundred. There are also ways of converting an existing carb to work, use a pressure regulator, seal the carb airtight, etc. I hear Natural gas is the hit only because its a little cheaper than LPG. You lose a negligible amount of horsepower stock, but can be modified to regain. Mileage is said to be slightly worse than gas, but this could be a tuning thing. I was actually thinking about converting the Fairlane and Jeep to Nat Gas. But I am actually taking afoot to mess with the Biodiesel - corn oil based fuel. No mods and you can make your own supply. Passes emmissions gloriously, and PA's just got those buggers. I have some websites if you interested in learnming more on LPG.
Damn near every cab company here runs it. SBCs and Crown Vics with half million miles. Gotta say something. The conversion peices can't be hard to find. Look for a busted taxi. Plus there are a few propane dragsters pulling down some crazy times.
A lot of People around here still use Propane, not to mention all the Forklifts that run off it. I have never heard of it being detrimental to the engine, old heads that were designed for leaded fuel might have a problem. I have seen a couple of V-8's torn down for a rebuild after running 100k+ on Propane. They are spotless on the inside. You still get the wear, but you don't get all the sludge and Hard deposits. I thought about doing it for a while, but prices do fluctuate wildly when it starts to get cold outside. Farmers around here that use it in Tractors and Vehicles usually Buy/Rent huge Tanks from the Propane company and get them filled while the prices are still low in late summer. They have quick-connect fittings that allow them to easily fill the vehicles from the large Tank. You might check with your local propane company. As far as I know, the only way to get a new system around here is to have the Propane company do it. They sell the parts and install everything for you. I last looked into it about 8 or 9 years ago and it was going to run me just over $1000. I decided I could buy a lot of gasoline for $1000.
my wife's grandfather up in Jacksboro owns a propane business. I got my 51 chevy truck from him. It still had the propane conversion on it. all his company trucks, and ranch tractors run on it. The way they run it you can go on propane until your empty, stop and flip a lever and your back to gas and on the road again. I don't know about what it does to an engine. Roothawg - her Grandad says its really easy on the engine? don't know who to believe.
I got an LPG system for my Econoline, still haven't installed it, I'm a bit nervous about installing it myself, don't want to light up a cig and blow myself up Old systems I've seen use a sort of shower head air filter housing when you flip a switch instead of sucking air to get mixed with gas the shower head just flows LPG, on newer systems it's plugged into the carb someway. Cheap as hell, almost no taxes on it (gas prices here are 99% taxes 1% gas), government even payed back installation costs for a while. Drawback: can't take ferries or park in underground garages.
[ QUOTE ] I got an LPG system for my Econoline, still haven't installed it, I'm a bit nervous about installing it myself, don't want to light up a cig and blow myself up Old systems I've seen use a sort of shower head air filter housing when you flip a switch instead of sucking air to get mixed with gas the shower head just flows LPG, on newer systems it's plugged into the carb someway. Cheap as hell, almost no taxes on it (gas prices here are 99% taxes 1% gas), government even payed back installation costs for a while. Drawback: can't take ferries or park in underground garages. [/ QUOTE ] I don't park with fairies in underground garages anyway so that doesn't matter.... Can you post some pictures of the parts involved in your kit or scan the installation instructions so I can see what's involved? (Just the pictures if they aren't in English or Spanish) Thanks,
I have all the parts for a conversion on a Holley pattern manifold except the tank and fuel line. Cheap. IMPCO brand.
another plus is emissions are way down. As some one said earlier LPG is very popular here ,especially on the east coast. Price varies here, but not but real big amounts over night. Gas is also taxed less than gasolene. You have to remember we pay something over $4 dollars and up wards a gallon for gasolene here. Yeah I should drive some mega mileage econo box, but I have always had V 8's and run them on gasolene.
Running dual fuel on vehicles doesn't work all that well. I worked for the gas company and we had natural gas/gasoline powered vans. Mileage was ok as was price, but there are no road taxes on natural gas, that is why it is cheaper. The drawbacks are less power and short range on a fill up. I would have to fill up a couple of times a day if I was doing service calls. The other problem was limited fueling stations. We eventually installed our own stations for fueling where we parked overnite. Didn't help me though as I had my truck at home. Propane is hard on valves. If you are going to use it have it installed professionally and you should have hardened valve seats. I know up here in Canada the installations must be certified. If you don't switch back and forth on the fuels the carb gaskets dry up and they don't run well on gasoline then. One other thing about dual fuel vehicles. If you have a system with the fuel pump in the tank, don't run the vehicle out of gasoline and then switch to natural gas or propane as you will burn out the fuel pump. They need like a quarter of a tank of gas to keep cool as they run continuously. My truck used a couple of fuel pumps before the gas company figured that one out.
I use LPG in my cherokee and just about every 25 year or older car over here is on LPG. Most utility vans are on LPG as are most pickups. Usually start automatically on fuel and switch automatically to LPG within 2 seconds. The tanks would,nt even look out of place in the back of a R/PU or a trackster.Only ugly part really is the vapourisor. It looks like an old northwind heater.
Good post drJ I am thinking about running my chevy's on lpg.It is very cheap over here , and we call it gas ?? My dad got a kit in OZ and fitted it to his volvo 740 , worked well but was down on power.
Drj, I have written propane and dual fuel installation instructions for Nissan Forklifts, installed a couple hundred of 'em too. They are easy to install, the Impco (my preference) instructions are not the clearest, but you're smart enough to figure them out. The octane rating is very high, 100+. Some sourses claim a 99 octane, some say 106. I'm not sure 'cause with a 7.5:1 forklift engine it doesn't matter, so I didn't study further. The point is, if the engine is to be propane only, you need to go with a much higher compression ratio for any given state of tune to compensate for the lower output. The good part is you will see an increase in power compared to 90 octane swill from those freindly mideastern folks. A tune similar to ethenol would do fine. Dual fuel engines are easy to install too, but you can't optimise both fuels. storage is the down side to propane. The tanks are bulky and not shaped well for automotive use. Trucks are well suited to big bulky tanks though. Check the junk yards in local rural ares. There are lots of old units out there. They can provide the expensive tanks if nothing else.
Doc.LPG gets a bad rap because most applications are duel fuel setups and you don't get much bang for the buck running it in a low compression engine.I know a guy running it in a deisel motor w/ a turbo.20something to 1? I started to build a high comp Volvo moter several years ago but lost interest.We run generators on natural gas at work.Six cyl.ford motors w/ milled heads & 13:1 pistons.They get the oil changed every 6mo & it is as clean when it comes out as when it went in.These motors have been in service for 30 years and I have never heard of one breaking down.
Doc, doc, doc, leave that old volvo to rot.... Get yourself a pimpass of mercedes 5 cylinder indirect injection diesel. Go to krispey kreme and offer to haul away their spent frying oil, take it home, filter it... wait... maybe this is a good time to read up on BIODIESEL. Check it out, neat stuff. You can buy it from a pump in LBC someplace, probably out by the water. its probably $2.70 a gallon. www.biodiesel.org or something. (if you're gonna be a hippy, ya might as well do it right! ))
I wouldn't recommend dual-fuel--it's kind of the worst of both worlds. LPG works best on an engine that's been optimized for it. As for intake valves, you just treat the heads the same way you would to run on unleaded gas. If you run hardened seats and stainless valves you'll be fine. I've got a bunch of info on propane on my RPU project site if you're interested: http://www.zonk.com/hotrod.htm In addition to IMPCO, Marilyn Miller (Ak's ex-wife) makes MM mixers and vaporizers for propane--that's the setup I went with. Marilyn is located next to Ak's shop in Pico Rivera.
Ok, I rounded up some tanks, free too!. I Emailed Enjenjo. I'm NOT going to conert the Volvo, it's cut up in dozens of bite size pieces and stuck around the yard as decorations. It's an idea for the '60 Chevy that was being run out of a one gallon gas can with a hose in it wired up to the battery bracket so it wouldnt get in the way of the fan. and theres room under the rear of that bed to put the back seat from a 9 passenger wagon that's just empty space so I'm gonna utilize it! I looked at Zonk's site and that mixer is way better looking than a Ford "teapot" carburetor any day! This is getting exciting... And no, I'm not going to join the Sierra Club, even if Wife did already..
Propane will eat your valve guids alive... Have a friend that worked on some old trucks that were converted to LPG... valvetrain was always a problem for him.
[ QUOTE ] Propane will eat your valve guids alive... [/ QUOTE ] SBC No deposit, no return throw away engine. Doesn't have valve guides anyway I'll just put the motor mounts in with wing nuts.. besides, I've got a bunch of spare heads around anyway, (low compression, you don't want them) they deserve to get their guideless valves "broke-in".
Dr.J, I've been working in fleet maintaince dept. at AC&B for almost 10 years & I haven't seen any abnormal engine wear due to propane use. Internal sludge formation is almost zero & oil stays super clean. We use Impco parts exclusively & they are simple in design & very reliable. I bet in the 10 years I've been working on forklifts I,ve only had to rebuild 4 vaporizers, 4 lockoff/filter units, & replaced about a half dozen diaphrams in top of the carbs. this is in a fleet of 30 LPG powered Hysters that mostly all run 3 shifts 6 days a week. Most of the lift trucks run 250 Chevy sixes or 4.3 V6 engines. I've converted a few gasoline trucks we bought over to LPG & it's not hard at all. You do need coolant flow through the vaporizer. that would require some rerouting of heater hoses in a passenger car but not a big deal. I also have literature & manuals on these systems if you are interested. Billy
[ QUOTE ] ... I also have literature & manuals on these systems if you are interested. Billy [/ QUOTE ] Thanks, I'll get back to you on that when the time comes!
The Jalopy Journal
