Johnny, Ive had it under the carpet on the floor of my 38 Chevy coupe for 7 years not. I havent noticed a change at all. I appreciate all the testing you guys are doing and I am going to do some of my own soon. I quit the regular job to go into the insulation business full time starting next week. I have one of the infrared thermometers and I will be doing some testing myself. Ill post the results as soon as I can get it done. Ive got a couple of test mules to use it on. A recently accuired studebaker pickup and a midengine corvair that has a 18 ga aluminum engine cover. Hopefully I will be able to post some results soon. Mike
Lobuckrod, OT in this thread I know, but which engine is in the Mid Motored 'Vair? There's a guy here with the engine and trans out of a Toronado in one (455, TH 425) it hauls.
I started another thread on this to keep everything OT. Check it out http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2791536#post2791536
Ooooooh that corvair sounds neat lobucrod! yeah I should have said it before the insulation I bought from you was not meant to be the only insulation on the floor, that's pretty obvious and I did it anyway because I was frickin hot!!!!!! It just wore thru with constant wear and tear. My concern was the cells holding up under the carpet with foot pressure on them. i'm gonna put it down regardless since I have it, and truthfully I don't really step on the floor all that much , just rest my heel on it when I'm driing. Definitely the more layers of the stuff the more heat it keeps away. Speaking of which, I should probably double up on the roof if I have enough. I don't regret buying the couple bags that I have, but if I could get similar at Lowes for less money I'd probably just do that next time. I just don't think the insulation products marketed for cars are any much different than repackaged household type stuff., except they charge a lot more. Dynamat extreme and the like *maybe* are created just for the application , but the rest seem to be pretty universal except in marketing. I love how Lizardskin's' website talks about them 'developing' other products. Its been years now and those other products are still under development evidentally LOL. I'd heard that the guy was an engineer and came up with this stuff, maybe my friend told me that, but it sure looks like some people just came up with a really great marketing plan to sell thick paint with *maybe* $10 worth of microspheres in it for $200.
I hit Lowe's on the way home last night. In Cincinnati anyway, Lowe's doesn't carry the Peel and Stick stuff anymore. Guy told me because of the asphalt content...didn't have any of the the Reflectix stuff either. Just an FYI. 51FourDoor
FWIW after laying down 3 layers of HMLS on the inside of my car, you can definitely tell there are insulating properties. I had to cut some of the firewall out to run the steering column and one side would be instantly too hot to touch, and the other wtih the HMLS you could hold in your hand for a while. Definitely *something* is going on. I also used a friend's lizardskin spray gun to shoot a coat of the stuff on . Boy was it faster than rolling! By about 4 hours!! It took like 5 hours to do a thorough job of rolling/brushing the stuff on, and maybe an hour with the gun. I'm going to try this gun for $20 off ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bedl...025QQitemZ380007755262QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V I'm also going to try this 5 gal bucket of undercoat for $90 from ACE, it's got microspehres and weighs 20 % less, so my guess is that it's 20% microspheres, which would approx. match the ratio of the stuff that I've bought. I think I'm going to dump in the rest of my microspheres, about 3 gal worth too. I don't know if more is better or not, but most people seem to try it I also found out that the *minimum* amount of coats you want to do of real lizard skin is 3 coats. Evidentally it looks a lot thicker than it is since its water based, and once that water evaps. its much thinner. I've seen my HMLS with 3 coats plus primer, and it looks *maybe* as thick as a credit card, but another coat wouldn't hurt I don't think. I did one coat on the inside of the front wheel wells and the engine compartment, and I'm going to follow up with that Lowes stuff and call it done, I'm just tired of fooling with the stuff. I haven't actually driven with the stuff on yet so I can't say how well it does, but I'm certain it'll be better than before. I'm just ready to be done with it. I'm also going to put the peel and stick on the inside of hte doors and quarters, but i'm using dap landau top cement to hold it on, and I think it's going to be fine. Oh! also FWIW I did some welding on the floorpan iwth the hmls on it. When it was wet it burned like crazy, and then when it was dry it burned less but still pretty good
lobucrod thanks for the free sample. I got it on Saturday. I ran a few tests. It was basically a tie between reflectix (REF) and lobucrod's insulation(LI). The reflectix was usuallly 1 or 2 degrees cooler than LI. LI is much more durable though- I wouldn't worry about it popping underneath my feet. If I were doing everything over, I'd probably put down a coat of Homemade Lizard Skin(HMLS) and then LI. If it were significantly cheaper, I'd probably use REF on the roof and maybe inside the doors (areas that won't be stepped on). I'm not sure if I'd use the Peel & Seal on the floor or not again. I have no way to measure it's sound deadening qualities so I do not know how it compares to the other products. I do know that if for some reason I want to remove it, it isn't going to be fun. I think that if the surface is nice and clean, this stuff is not in danger of falling off. I stuck a piece on my roof (bare metal). It's sat in the sun for two days (inside roof temp reached 140+ degrees) and I couldn't pull it off last night. I'm going to put a layer of HMLS over it and put on a layer of REF. I also tested out the flame resistance of the products. I didn't have a way to test if they'd burn based on the temperature of the surrounding area(exhaust heat, etc): REF & LI - about the same, both will burn if the flame gets between layers of foil Peel & Seal - didn't get it to really burn, but the 'tar' will melt Frost King - the foam will burn very easily when near an open flame.
Thanks Chevy II! FWIW I just looked at a buddy's stash of name brand sound deadener, the stuff looks exactly like peel n seal but cost a heckuva lot more. I'm sure it works fine for that, as well as giving the doors some extra weight and a *thunk* when you close them. I ran it for a few years underneath the door panel of my OT car and never had a problem, but maybe the door panel held it up or something, I dunno. I just read that the stuff I was thinking about using is white in color. I don't think I have the heart to re-paint everything two more times. I may just finish up with the beads that I have and get some more oops paint to shoot.
I'd like to know that too. That fuzzy stuff is gone from my '56 and I need something up there to cover the tar stuff that the original stuff left .. Could s**** it off but hell, need something up there anyway. Shiny stuff would be a good thing ..
Have we settled on the formula for the home made lizzard skin. how much microspheres per gallon of a particular liquid. What type of microshperes. I am will to give it a try. Ed
You get instructions with the spheres. Wicks were pre measured. Hytech you measure. If I were to do it again I'd save the h***le and use the premixed stuff from lowes at a kink I posted earlier. $90 for 5 gal delivered to the store. I paid $60 for 5 gals of spheres from hytech, and paint was $14 a gal. but tinted black. Kool seal is white. I used zinser alcohol? primer, that stuff holds to anything! I got tired of going to home depot for $5 gallon oops paint. I just could never get enough exterior paint in colors even close to acceptable. Parking is hell, too. There definitely is a difference between spheres. The wicks seem thicker, but aren't listed as having insulating qualities. Hytech specifies its insulating properties. I'm goiinf to try a cheap undercoating gun from ebay next. My 3 coats plus primer have finally dried and its a little rubbery, but not easy to peel off. 3 coats are the recc to get correct thickness.
thanks for the information I had at one time that site for hytech but my mozilla book marks where eaten up. thanks Ed
do you know if one of them works better than the other? I'm guessing the wickes doesn't list the insulating properties b/c thats not what they're selling them for. I posted a few pics of my progress on my website: http://63chevyii.com/the_build/2008/may_june.htm
FWIW here's what Hytech says: quote"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, san-serif, Tahoma] A great majority of ceramic and gl*** "microspheres" or "beads" being produced today are for applications ranging from medical, electronic and every day household use each having different chemical and physical properties. Many of these applications require ceramics that will actually INCREASE the transfer of heat. Hy-Tech insulating ceramics are selected for their chemical compatibility with paints and coatings and their ability to block the transfer of heat. Hy-Tech insulating ceramics are not a waste by-product of some other industry nor are they an inexpensive filler as are many of the insulating paint additives being marketed today."/quote I take all that with a grain of salt, but there must be some truth to it. No, actually I don't know which works better. I don't have any real scientific way to test, since I used the hytech as a thrid coat on the inside of the car. It's the only coat on the front fenders though, maybe I can heat those up enough to see if anything is different. [/FONT]
It's hard to tell... its like dynamat saying you need to buy their stuff. The guys over at hotrodders.com seemed to like their results with the wickes stuff. If I started over, I'd probably buy the premixed stuff.
Cool thread...learning allot here...I do design work on homes, and allot of people are using Radiant Barriers along the underside of there roof ply and roof rafters, and ceiling joists to reduce the amount of Radiant Heat entering the building by reflecting it back out. They also have a Radiant Barrier Paint available. It's basically aluminum foil.
IMHO it won't rot the panels in my application, as I've used zinser primer first, followed by the multiple coats of latex exterior paint. If it doesn't rot your house I don't see why it'd rot your car. Not to mention, where are you going to put it that it'll be exposed to moisture? If you use it just inside your car / doors/ etc how wet are they ever going to get? I'm cool with the risk That's interesting, fairlane, I wonder if it's similar to the hytech aluminum paint they sell? Pretty neat stuff. Im just burned out on cleanup/multiple coats/ drying time/etc., I'm ready to start putting on some other type of insulation. Gotta get another coat on first though
Just wondering if anyone has tried to use the Heat reflecting properties of Microspheres combined with the sound deadening properties of say a liquid rubber spray coating?
there are some guys over on hotrodders.com using some the rubber roof coating - 'Kool seal' or henry's elastomer coating .... or something like that?
Off topic. Anybody have a good cheap subs***ute for seam sealer? Maybe some sort of roofing product as well?
next time I'd use kool seal ligtweight with microspheres, $90 for 5 gal at lowes but have to order a week in advance. Also its white. I'm using home depots best window sealant, $6 a tube. I think its taken 3 or 4 tubes for entire car. Seems ok to me so far. Edit: fwiw I just did my new gas tank in spheres , it took the ring out of it for sure. Anything that doesn't move on my car is getting covered!
alright... great read so far. i have 2 rolls of quick roof (tar and aluminum, peel n seal equivelant?) that came with my car. whats involved with getting this stuff OFF? i need a temp solution to radiant heat thru the floor and firewall until we get our proper interior done. if i find this stuff ****s am i looking at a total nightmare to get it OFF?
From what I've seen, Peel-n-Seal doesn't make a huge difference for heat. Also, if you prep the surface so that it sticks, it's gonna be hell getting it off. Maybe try some of the lobucrod stuff?
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