Technical Anyone had issues with Posies Model A style rear springs?

A good friend is building a 32 5W. He has a Posies spring made for Socal. He isn't some rookie, he is a professional fabricator. Many of you have seen his work since I built my T in his shop while he was building his Model A. He built the 32 frame on his jig, it has been checked and rechecked for alignment and is spot on. He notice after mockup that the car listed to one side when viewed to the back and the QC set off to one side more than the other. The shackles also were at different angles. After pulling the spring it was traced onto the floor where we have found that it is asymmetrical. A replacement spring was sent out and it is even worse. You can set the springs side by side and they definately have different bends left to right. Of course when asked, Posies has never seen this issue. Anyone seen this issue?

 

That ****s, they aint cheap.

 

Get a stock A spring and check how it sits. That would tell if its the spring or ch***is.

 

Why don't you just say what you are thinking? Sorry you do not like Randy but do not insinuate the ch***is is off. Like i posted, we have measured it and it is spot on. The bends are off on either side of the spring. makes for a lopsided spring.

 

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This is one of the springs, they both make the car sit crooked

 

If there's an '***embly line' at Posies' that the springs come down, how many 'stations' between left and right bends?
Doubtful the same 'Spring Tech' is shaping both ends...unless he uses 2 jigs...
Ever reshape a 'T' or 'A' spring? Tough to get the spacing right between leaves, so all are parallel, and 'gaps' are non existent.
So, if replacements are not symmetrical, I would suggest some 'Spring shaping 101', and dis***emble the spring; when satisfied both ends (from centerbolt to eyes) are same, make a sturdy stand fixture for your 12 ton press, and duplicate both sides, checking/correcting all leaves.

My wife did mine, (a gennie '27 T rear: dropped 2", all leaves parallel and straight...excellent.)
The fixture I built her is a 3" long piece of hot rolled 2" X 6" channel, with an old wrist pin welded onto each leg of the channel. This won't scarf the leaf when resting across it to get bent between. (a third wrist pin is welded to a telescoping tube that fits over the mandrel of the press, so 3 round anvils make the bends smoothly)

My brother bought a 'trick' reversed eyed, flattened spring from a rod shop in San Jose, 1978. He installed it, and the roadster sat 1.5" low on the left.
He thought I welded the ch***is crooked (yeah, right...on my jig, yet)
He took the spring off and reversed it, now the car sat low on the drivers side.
I asked if he measured the spring... "How ya gonna measure it?"
He removed it once again, I could see it was an imperfect ellipse.
I straightened it on my press. Car sat level.

 

Thats not what Im saying. Get some good old Ford **** and put it under the ******* car and see what it looks like. Your right I dont like the guy and Im not saying the ch***is is wrong(hes a hell of a fabricator) It would be logical to try a different spring.

 

Granted,it's not exactly the same thing but it is a Posies spring,I had the same problem with their spring on a 40 Ford sedan,I did basically the same thing,traced it on the garage floor and flipped it over and it was almost a 1" difference.

Naturally I was told they had never had any problems but return it on my dime and they would replace it,,the second one was about the same,I ended up making a longer shackle to compensate.

I won't use their springs again. HRP

 

Watching this closely.

 

How about visiting a good, local spring shop. I'll bet they could re-arch the spring to make both sides the same cheaper than shipping both ways. In a pinch I have made a wedge shaped shim to go between the spring and the crossmember, used one of the aluminum wedges that are made for setting proper caster on a solid axle with parallel leaf springs.

 

Just a backyarder thought; Is it worth the time to pull it apart and compare tracings of each leaf?

Maybe you'd get lucky and find out that only 2 or 3 need a bit of press time? That would be possible if it's just the outer ends that are bent at the wrong angle, not the big curves in the center of each?
.

 

That's a pretty stupid statement right there T-man!.

Matter of fact it sounds like you have already diagnosed the problem as asymmetrical spring ?... So what exactly is your question?

Put an the spring in the other way around , if it leans the other side .. Well there you go... Old ford spring is better anyway

...ROCKET SCIENCE...

 

Both springs have been in the car both ways. The car will tilt one way then the other as the spring is flipped. Not to mention the rear end moving off to one side. The point is, with this as anything you pay a few hundred dollars for is that it SHOULD BE RIGHT! A guy should not have to put it in a press and tweak it, although we have the means.

 

Stupid? expecting parts to be right when you pay for them? Whatever...................

 

As with HRP I had the same issue with their spring in the front of a 40-tried two and they were both off--returned them and used a stock 40 spring pack with several leafs removed and a new main leaf made locally. Would not try one of their springs again. Have done a bunch of 40 's since with the method mentioned above.

 

No .... STUPID , is jumping up rusty rockets *** when he suggests to try a old ford spring and see what happens...

you made it sound like you couldn't figure out why the car was crooked...


Do you need a midol?

 

Do you realize the perch centers are different on this spring than a Stock Ford spring? Moot point, the stock WOULD NOT fit properly anyway. And yes we did think of that option.

Fact, close to $500 was spent by a professional shop to receive a sub-par product. The initial question was if anyone had issues, not looking for bandaids like spacers and and ****py input. HRP, has my respect, I thank him and others for their honest answer to the question.

Where we are at now is Socal has been great to help. But, even they have complaints. The gent as Posies has, after sending a second poorly built spring told randy to get bent. From what we have learned the spring is built outside of Posies by a contractor. Maybe Clark or one of the Penn guys that knows ken can help here. Posie's has this car at a standstill. The only caveat is that it is Randy's personal build and not for a customer that is waiting.

 

You should talk to some of the engineers working at So Cal......or Eaton Springs....(bad joke).

Spring technology hasn't changed much since the horse and buggy days, and the manufacturing process too.

Why when you order a rear spring for a 32 roadster from a hot rod builder shop, why do you get a spring with extra leaves.....Why isn't the spring for a roadster configured to work on a roadster, as delivered? Hot rod springs are the same as they were in the 70's. Posie did the ****on thing, but for regular springs, they don't even bother to taper, or otherwise soften the ends, like some old springs.

This is probably why street rods use coil overs. I know they aren't traditional.....but as with most street rod things, they are an improvement over the things from the past.

Repro parts get a bad rap, because so many deserve a bad rap......always did, and probably always will.

 

First off; I have no dog in this fight. Why is there antagonism? Trent didn't ask anyone for advice on how to correct the situation and he didn't ask for advice on what happened. He saw and stated what the problem was/is.

He only asked if anyone had seen this also...

 

Yes , I have had a Prolbem with a Posie spring also ,"" was not Happy "" &
I used a Press to fix ,
There is a lot of well know Companies that Are Hit Or Miss in Quality
Any More ,
like Tman said , you should Not have to put in a press to make it work as if it's a cheap $50 spring !!!

 

I had the same issues with a mono leaf front spring. Car sat crooked. Spring was arched different on each side from center pin to eye. Traded for a new one - same deal. Now it is wall art!!!

 

Oh jeeze I've got one on the mono-leaf front springs to go on my front end.

 

So, what are you going to do? If you paid by Credit card, can you cancel the charge? You'd think a "name" like Posies would be more interested in helping. It's pretty clear it's off so what do they say besides get lost?

 

Ive got Posie's reverse eye super slide in the front and rear of my 30 Tudor. Sits perfectly. I messed around a bit with removing springs to get height I wanted, but it rides pretty good for what it is and sits nice and level.

 

To answer the man's question, yes I have encountered the same problem both with original and reproduction springs. Buggy springs can lean to one side or the other and did so when new. Lots of factors can cause a listing to one side or the other. Pete Eastwood in our area is the master and solves the problem with his magic. I threw the spring away and installed coil-overs which have been around since the 60's. As many old hot rodder's say — "we made it work!"

 

Well, we are not going to "make it work". The springs are so bad I even doubt the metalurgy. We have found that an outside vendor makes these for Posies and another seller who is also sitting on a pile of junk springs in their inventory trying to reach a resolution.

 

I bought a pair of their lowered rear springs for my 37 Chevy p/u that did not lower it at all,should have returned them and put the originals back on since I ended up using lowering blocks to get it where I wanted it.

 

I ordered a reverse eye spring for the front of my 34 back in 2012. They advised that it was a special order, and would take longer to make and ship. When I received it, it was surface rusted, and the main leaf had more arc on one side than the other. Should have sent it back and gotten a refund, but you live and learn I guess. Main leaf was straightened in a press, and away we go.

 

My brother has had such bad luck with them that he now calls them "Super Sag" springs.

 

Update, Eaton is making a correct spring to spec. They have been great to deal with so far.