Anyone using a sprint car cowl steering setup?

If so, any pics on the mounting set-up ........

Just picked one up and plan on using it on my 29 pickup i'm putting together

 

I have one....in my sprint car. There's one in the midget too.

I hope you like gokart steering.....

 

The one in my coupe.

 

Forgot one.

 

Larry,

I am really impressed. Did you have Schroeder custom build your box? What ratio do you have; 6:1 or 8:1. I am told the 6:1s are to fast for the street and hard to steer. The 8:1s are supposed to be better. But what do I know?

http://www.schroedersteering.com/OWSteerings.html

 

Hey Bib. I used a stock 8:1 off the shelf unit. But I am gonna run a shorter arm than the one pictured for easier steering. That means the drag link will run downhill a little, but I don't think it will look bad.

 

I am not so sure that you will like the race car steering box in your street car. As a note, a power box it should not be run as a manual. As mentioned the race car boxes steer quite quick and require constant driver attention. I may be mistaken but I believe most p***enger car boxes have ratios between 16-1 to 20-1. This might sound an odd ratio but it allows the vehicle to turn yet not overly sensative. Yes, some of the rate of steering can be compensated for with the length of the pitman arm and steering arm but not enought to make driving relaxing.

If 3w larry shortens his pitman arm it will steer slower but I still don't think slow enough. Luckily he can go to any race shop and purchase a sprint or midget pitman arm in different lenghts from 10-15" for about $35.00.

Goodway to backyard check steering sensitivity is to hop in the family wagon and count the steering turns lock to lock and them compare them to the lock to lock of your ride. They dont have to be exactly alike but similar. If your ride has less turns it is faster , if it has more turns slower. Slower steering can be just as distractiong as too fast steering, some times worse.

You did not say what brand of steering box you had but to it wouldn't hurt to give a call to the box manufacturer such as, KSE, Nields, Profile or Schroder to see if your box can be redone for steet use. Nickle phone call could save a lot of headaches. Good luck with your project.

 

It's a Profile......

 

The Rolling Bones guys all run this Schroeder setup with tens' of thousands of miles logged with no problems. I rode in Kens' roadster and it seemed to drive just fine. Thanks for your input ****. Much appreciated. Larry

 

That's a super sano setup in yours....You have your own CNC machine?

 

How much shorter to get what you want....Inch?....2?

 

No Eddie. The Hot Rod Garage in Sand Springs, Okiehoma did it. And I need about a 2 1/2 inch shorter arm.

 

I personally have driven both Kens Roadster and his coupe, as have others on this board, and I'll stand up and say they turn just fine. AV8Paul and myself have both put hundreds of miles on both cars. Plus all the Rolling Bones cars have gone cross country numerous times. Good luck with your setup.

 

I used a Schroeder 8:1 box in the Orange Roadster pick up we built. I really like the way it works, I had some concerns with it being to quick at first, But those were settled after my first drive. I have logged alot of miles on that thing in the last year without a problem.
Jimmy White
Circle City Hot Rods
P.s. I drilled the pitman arm 5" center to center so it is pretty short.

 

Ratrod asked if it was ok to use a sprint car box in his street car. It was asked what type of box he had and he replied a Profile, well that is about a 1 turn lock to lock box. At normal speed that is a little spooky for a road car, Johnnyfast and skidmark also cautioned about race car box steering reaction as they are designed for hi speed or tight quarters application.

Now for some reason this has gotten to be a comparison on steering boxes based on experiences with the Schroder boxes in 3w's and Ken's coupe. These boxes are not the same. From 3 w's picture it looks like the pitman arm is too long and even he said he needs to shorten it, which means it steers to quick. As for driving Ken's coupe, he hasn't offered me seat time so I can't p*** judgement. There is nothing wrong with the Schroder boxes, just the potential for them to be a quicker reacting box requiring a higher degree of driver concentration at lower legal speeds.

A critical point in car building is the uniformity in steering, use this as an example, based on driving your normal grocery getter and a friends. Swap cars at any time and no matter what make, they all react similarly. You don't get that uniform p***enger car response when using a race car box in a normal street driven car. Now you may get accustomed to that style steering but it is not for everyone and even though it looks neat, it is not always the most comfortable vehicle to drive and the quicker steering may catch the occ***ional driver offguard in some driving situatuions.

The original post was about using that racecar box on the street. Will it work, yes. Is it a good idea, in that configuration, probably not. The best thing to do would be to call Profile and see if they have a suggestion to make it more streetable.

 

Thanks **** for your suggestions....The main reason i'm going this route is that i'm gonna be running a T-5 in the car and with a cowl steer it leaves alot more room for pedals, plus i'm not crazy about modifieing an existing box for cowl steer....I know alot have done it, but i feel more comfortable this way....

 

Sounds like you will need a http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/display_id.2025/qx/Product.htm

 

That's good to know but space is limited

 

The original post was about "anyone using sprint car cowl steering on the street" not racecar steering on the street. He didnt mention it was a Profile box until later in the thread. I think people including me were just offering their experiences with Schroeder style sprint car boxes. I really think your theory on steering uniformity is not applicable to hot rods. A hot rod with Vega steering will not steer the same as one with an F-100 box. I dont expect to hop out of my 98 f-150 pick up and then hop into a hot rod and expect it to steer the same. People need to realize a hot rod is a specialty vehicle and treat it with that respect. I wish we could have steering and braking uniformity it would make my job easier.
Jimmy White
P.s. I agree with the fact, that if the profile box is really quick he should look into something else. My Schroeder box doesnt seem that quick to me.

 

He might not be in trouble with the Profile gear. Mine is 14 : 1 and will be slow enough (with the correct pitman arm and steering arm lengths obviously) to work just fine. With a 7" steering arm and a 10 1/4" pitman arm, I'll have two turns lock to lock....turning the front wheels 40 degrees either way from straight ahead.

 

Whoa don't all gang up on me now . First I checked my KSE box and with a 15" steering wheel, 11 " pitman and 7" steering arm it is 1 turn lock to lock so that Profile is going to be pretty close to that.
Lets start with replies,

Johnny did you do that on paper on in your car?

To hemi-coupe, you are using a Schroder but have had to modify it from its original intended use. It is designed to be used with a 10-11" pitman arm, you cut yours down to 5" to effectivly slow down the steering. Now if this is an 8-1 box to be used with a 10" arm, with a 5" arm you have made it a 16-1 box similar to a street car, that is why it is comfortable to drive. A stock Vega pitman arm is 6" ctc. I didn't say using this box was wrong just that you had to adjust steering components to get the correct feel and that is what you did.
As for uniformity of steering I dont expect that you hop out of your Lexus and into your hot rod and expect that milk toast road feel. But I do expect to hop in anyones hot rod and get the same steering response when I turn the wheel left or right. If I have to turn the Lexus 2" on the wheel, I expect to turn my hot rod 2" to turn the same arc. While the road feel of your hot rod might be more, that is just preference. My position is that even after fabricating and switching parts your steering wheel should turn about the same distance as a production car for the same turn, not significanly more or less.

Ratrod if you are concered about space that profile is based on a GM power box and they are pretty big. There was a guy at Kalamazoo last month in the swap meet that had a Ross box out of a farm combine machine. Had a small box and an extended sector which might be the way to go if you want to go scrounging the tractor supply houses.

Larry you should e-mail Hemi coupe about making you a pitman arm or at least get some pictures and measurements that would get you right in the ball park.
Good night guys.

 

That's why you 'da man ****. Thanksabunch. Larry. PS: The '32 3W Header panel and rear window moulding I got from you a couple of months ago are now installed and the window moulding is 5 inches shorter!

 

I saw what looked to be one at the cruise nite. I couldn't see the mounting from the dash side though. It was all tucked up behind the dash.

 

**** Spadaro asked, "Johnny did you do that on paper on in your car ?"

I drew it up in Autocad. Why do you ask ?

I determined the ratio by putting my digital-readout level on the pitman arm and noting that it rotated 26 degrees with one revolution at the steering wheel. 360 divided by 26 = 13.8 : 1 ratio.

The rest was junior high school geometry.

 

Where are those fancy support brackets from?....A little too nice {read: expensive} for me but i have to come up with something....Maybe a coupla connecting rods?

 

I designed them and the Hot Rod Garage in Sand Springs, OK had them CNCd for me. Yes they are ex$pen$ive, but ...damn they look good! Use what you see for a pattern and make your own on the cheap. Larry

 

Did you have to shorten the shaft that sticks out the cowl?

 

No, but we did shorten the other end tho, so as not to intrude on p***enger leg room.

 

where did you get those mounting brackets? i just got a custom sprint car box made for a ratrod project but it didnt come with anything to mount it

 

Not sure which Schroeder ratio I have. It was part of the package I had Zipp build in '99. The drag link is parallel to the ground and it's easy to see that we got the hole wrong on the first go around. I have a 13" steering wheel and the the fast steering is right for me.