Are traditional hot rods and Customs too perfect now?

My thoughts. Everything today is designed to be mass produced, so nothing looks handmade. With everything designed with perfect kerning and placement the sign that is made by "joe" just looks so right.

I have spent hours upon hours kerning and positioning a few words of copy! It does look better, in it's modern context. When you try to "reproduce" something old timey, your using modern tools and it shows. It can look neat but it won't be what it wants to be.

As far as cars go. "I" don't think the guys of the early hotrod days were thinking that design (mechanical design yes, not appeal) was leading function. Maybe more so in the 60's.

Lowered for air-dynamics, no hood and fenders for easy access to engine. You don't see a lot of trinkets on their rides, well at least till one guy had to outdo the next.

They were just defining car history.

 

In my case, I spent 3 years building a hot rod as perfect as I could make it. After I was finished, I didn't want to drive it, although I did. It got its share of road rash and with the constant touch-ups and cleaning, I grew tired of it and sold it. My next rod was bought with a ton of patina. I drove that car everywhere but ended up trading it for a custom, Now that I'm back to cleaning and touching-up, I miss the old rod........

 

Wasn't innovation the tradition?

 

Some say topics like this are just "navel gazing", but why not discuss it? It's on most of our minds often. I confess I haven't had time to read all of this thread, but of course I have a few random thoughts:

Hot rodding was originally as much about taking stuff off as about adding new stuff on. So appearance was secondary to performance.

Intention is key - are you building for the fun and thrills of driving a hopped up ride, or are you building to demonstrate your skills and artistic vision? Both are equally valid.

Unfortunately NOS and "genuine vintage" are becoming the new "billet" to a lot of guys. "Traditional" should be a spirt, not a rule book.

Never let "perfection" be the roadblock to "completion" - if it ain't running, it's just garage art. And if it's too perfect, well, you'll never sleep well when it's sitting out the motel parting lot!

IMO, building hot rods is like movie making; even if you do everything right, sometimes the end product can be a total miss. And sometimes an amateur effort just knocks it outa the park. It's magic.

 

maybe when applying 21st century tolerances,technology,fit and finish to early-mid 20th century vehicles the tradtional "feel" is lost.I don't think a 21st century high dollar custom build quality on a '50's kustom would have been technically possible back then.But isn't that part of their appeal?
Someone once said "music is like water,the flavor comes from the impurities."Maybe you can apply this to traditional Rods & Kustoms?
Paul

by the way how kool is the rake on this baby?if it were built today everyone would be hollering "slam it !" because the 21st century book on trad kustoms says you have to.Individuality,vision and overall look speak perfection to me,not door, trunk and hoodgaps.I would hazard a guess that up close,the rear fender & door trims donn't quite line up and I for one couldn't give a shit.looks perfect enough for me.

 

It's definitely a philosophical question and the response can be either illuminating or mere sophistry.

I think about my tastes and my dad's. He grew up in the 50s and I grew up in the 70s, I like "traditional" stuff, but I try to temper my love of tradition with practicality, if I can't find an original tranny dipstick and tube, I'll put a Lokar braided tube and billet handled dipstick on it...I'll paint it if I want to be "billetproof."

He doesn't flinch at new technology, but as a kid in the 50s, there really wasn't any "tradition," they were making what we call "tradition" by trying new stuff.

And "perfect" is one of those ambiguous and relative terms...if you have a design theme in mind and you nail it, it's perfect to you, right?

 

Not mine, but then again I drive mine and you can't keep a car "perfect" when it's on the road regularly.

 

Too perfect seams fake to me.

Wasn't there a thread a while back about Wabi-sabi? If I remember correctly it is seeing the beauty of things imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete.

I respect the "perfect" ones but personally would not want one. I'd be afraid to use it.

 

I believe "perfect" is in the eye of the owner. No matter how well one shop or fabricator can build, there will always be another right behind to criticize his work.

I also believe with the advance of Technology, so has our skills.

I personally believe a great Traditional Hot Rod or Custom is one that is not 'Perfect' per say in the body work, straightness of the paint etc., but one that flows from front to back and is proportioned properly....a great car is one that lets you eye it in all directions, with out any 'stops' that distract you from the overall picture.

 

I been sayin for yrs it a hobby to make each one of us happy, its about people not cars cars a catalist to get us togather, theres so many car sho dopes on this planet they miss the whole thing I DONT DO CAR SHOWS AND HAVE NOT FOR YEARS and I,m a old shit geez ya complain about nsra what,s it cost yas to attend you last "CAR SHOW" I never understood the pay to show mentality......my 2 cents

 

Amen!!!

Now when I was a kid in the early 70's when my Dad was in the hot rod scene guys built cars with what they could use, and to the best of their ability within the framework of the lives they had at the time.

You had an old car, a juiced up motor-trans-rear end, good steering brakes etc, with body and paint as nice as you could afford, mostly homemade inerior etc...and they drove em, and had fun.

My car will never be as nice as those high dollar cars in magazines, and I'm good with that.

 

It's pretty nice already Dooley. I would be proud to own that car!

 

Actually, that car was my own, and the car was only 2 years old at the time -- so the paint, door gaps, and trim alignment were factory. I didn't even realize at that time that the trim alignment could be adjusted. And, if I had that car today, I would lower the back too.

It was this thread! Kevin had a Wikipedia reference about a year and a half ago that described wabi-sabi in detail. I completely forgot that this is where I found it in the first place.

 

that is so funny! about two hours ago i was staring at the back lights of my 36 ford coupe. They are off from each other, not much but i can see it. I had tried everything, new rubber, put in shims etc, etc.

then it suddenly hit, this car was built 74 years ago without robots or computers. in a time when consumers where not obsessed with absolute visual perfection.

its strange though because that unperfect car is still here today because it was built to last. where everything a can buy today may look perfect but in five years time it will probably be in a landfill.

 

Thanks, but it's funny when I was starting to put it together i would read all these magazines and see how they were doing it. The majority of the bodywork on this car was done 50 years ago, and there is/was alot of brazing done. Then you see the magazines showing tailpan replacment because of 1 pin hole or old brazing and you think....wow should I be doing that? Should I have all new patch panels in so my doors and fenders fit better?

My front fenders have EMT around the lip cause the lips were so bad years ago, you can't really see it but it's there, little stuff like that.

 

If it is black it is the original, if it is orchid red it is the clone.

 

I think I get "it". I think about how much harder it must have been to achieve a really finished rod back then because so few people had or had access to the tools of the trade. When I started out in the late 1950's I had the only chain fall for miles around and that gave me a lot of status. But I had no welding equipment. No air. No hyd. jacks. No creeper even. I had to get in good with the guy who ran the neighborhood Enco station so I could borrow a tool now and then. If it hadn't been for the school shop my passion for wrenching might have died on the vine.

 

I think FritzTownFord nailed it. Traditional is not an absolute. It's should be built in the Traditional spirit .

 

And yet, cars like this were built back then.

"Jim Khougaz roadster out at El Mirage dry lake. Running on methanol, it hit 141.95 mph there at an SCTA meet in July 1949..."

"This is how it looks today..."



"This is how it looks today..." Does anyone know if the car was this nice back then?

 

Goodlord !!!!! This has to be one of... if not the BEST roadsters I have ever seen!!!!!!!! HOLYSHIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's the general opinion when it comes to this car, considered by many to be the best ever. Read up and enjoy-
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111619

 

JimmyB
The Jackman brothers cars were both the original ones. The candy red/pink one was found and redone for the GNRS. Lots of old car guys in San Diego helped get the red one done for the show.

 

Thanks Richard for the link. That is just breathtaking.

 

The cherry car was a rebuild of the black version and the original was restored to the black version, the candy cherry car is an exact replica built by Harry Jackman.

 

here is a pic from '49

 

Beautifull car, no doubt...

But back when it was being restored, I heard a lot of people knowlegable with the project call it 'Over-restored'...

I don't know... Fact is, most if not all 'restorations' are 'over-restorations' so I'm not sure the terms mean anything.

I've seen that car driven in the past so who cares.

The point to me isn't if that particular car is too perfect, but if the average guy, building the average hot rod, who's targetting the average builder from a given era is trying to make his car rediculously perfect.

Here's another example to think about...

The Miller lakester...



Vs the new 'Golden Sub'



Both are undeniably awesome...
I've been pouring over pictures of both lately.

But I think the Miller lakester represented about the pinnacle of inginuity (some ill-placed) and build quality from the era.

And to me the new Golden Sub is kind of plasticine by comparison.

If you just showed me the Sub, I'd say "I wish I could build something like THAT!"

But if you showed me both together, the Miller gets me much more exited.

 

As I look thru some of the mags today, I personal think most of the cars are over fabricated.

 

As an old sign guy, I also look a lot at old signs and so called old style lettering. Most people think that old signs have to be imperfect, but that is not the case. Every area of the country had sign men that knew about kerning and what letters to make bigger to overcome the optical allusion that round letters look smaller and M's carry too much body weight. They could twirl a quill and make perfect letters.
Every area also had it's share of slop artists.

 

No, nor should they ever be.

To your sign story Kevin Lee, any one who lives in Austin has been to Barton Springs atleast once. Well next time you go there, look over near the diving board and you will see this tree stump. I call it a stump but it stands taller than me and it is white. Perfectly smooth, inperfect, and so amazing, I stare at it every time I am there. I think that is what hot rodding is about. To most people, that stump is ugly, unsigtly, or it may go completly unseen, but it is what it is.

There is diveristy here and everything is different. I look at some cars, and I see nothing I like, but there are others that I fall in love with before they are done. Before they are perfected. And is that what we are searching for? Our own perfection? You don't like that line, you dislike this curve, so you change it to fit you, so you can look at it every day.

I don't think they are perfect because not everyone agrees with them. I was looking at a thread the other day, and I saw the end result and I thought the builder just missed his mark, while so many others patted him on the back.

Now do I think that there is a validity to what you are saying? Yes, I absolutly believe that some people here are trying to make their rides perfect, but let them.

I walked around the Hot Rod Revolution and I saw black cars, tons of them, but you know what else I saw? I saw leather with roses embrodiered onto it, I saw pinstriping on the dash, and I saw tears in the seat where kids play on long drives. I don't know if this will give you answers or more questions but I hope it helps you understand.

 

I don't think 'over-fabricated' is the same as 'over-restored' or over-polished...

Fixing a cracked windshield is just just good sense and is something that would have been done as soon as humanly possible when hot rodding was original and not 'traditional.'

But I totally agree that over-fabrication is a risk in traditional hot rodding...

I think the chopper building/fabrication ethos has kind of run rampant in the hobby, where guys have a relatively small, limited canvas to make a statement about their individuality/building ability. And where the 'rules' of 'Tradition' largely don't apply.

Cars are bigger, with more opportunities for larger fabrication statements, which means if you carry that mentality from chopper building directly to traditional rodding, you can run the risk of fabrication to the point of distraction... It's easy to miss the forest for the trees and get caught up in making a statement with every metal junction, resulting in a cluttered finished product.

But I think a lot of talented guys, think that if they don't make those statements, they aren't showcasing their talents.

It takes just as much or more restraint to leave a perforated fish-plate off as it does to leave the chrome to a minimum, or choose black walls, or a more traditional solid color as apposed to something flashy.

Original Hot Rodding was about the drive... Not the build...
We've kind of flipped that a little... Which isn't a bad thing. It just presents some different challenges to meeting the desired goals for the build.