ARGH!!! Nevada DMV HELL!

well, we're screwed on our latest "project". Just got back from DMV, and find out a new rule- if the frame or body has ever been changed, regardless of having an original ***le, it will then be registered as a homebuilt of the current year. I bought a '27 T ch***is from Model T Haven, and after waiting four months for "a" frame to show up (the original was lost with the shipper who insists he never received it), we take it down and they refuse, saying that's not the original frame, stamping, blah blah blah, long story short, I'm out $1600! I got a 1927 clear Kansas ***le, a pile of parts, and they want to register as a 2006, which I refuse to do. In fact, they even red flagged me! They wrote my name and VIN so that I couldn't try to come back later! Totally bummed, needless to say. Sorry, but this is just a wake up call to thouroughly GRILL the DMV inspectors so you know each and every rule beforehand (I've spoke with them on at least ten occasions, both on the phone and in person when I registered other cars, one of which was also purchased form Model T Haven. They got great satsifaction out of telling me all the stories of Californians' days that they ruined, talking about how they come in with 1934 ***les and leave very angry with 2006 ***les Apparently CA and many other states look the other way when it comes to non-stock frames/bodies. What little men!

 

So if you replace a frame you gotta register it as a 2006?

 

You're sposed to only spend your "hobby money" on them legal ******s.


America, land of the free.

 

So the moral is, lie to them, or build it with the stock frame, register, then rebuild it the way you want. Or register it for the road in another state, then transfer it there.

I wonder what they consider it when you re-clip a unibody car for an accident repair, then?

I'd want to see the rule in print and I'd check with at least three different DMV offices. Some guys just like to be *****s, and others could give a **** about every **** detail.

 

Dont you just love it when stupid policys force honest decent people into "criminal" activities?

 

Maybe these guys can help you out:
http://www.broadway***le.com/how.htm

(I have never used them, so proceed at your own risk. I think other HAMBers may have used them though)

 

Try the next county over I did something similar when I lived in vegas I drove out to nye county and had no problems with the nice dmv Lady.

Primo

 

California is doing the same... In order to register with original paperwork as stated year...must have original frame and body when registering it...I found out the hardway too...DMV sent me to CHP.. CHP would only issue special construction VIN and ***le...EVILT

 

That stinx.

 

I'll take that OG '27 ***le off your hands if you can't use it. In Wisconsin, if you have a ***le, you send it in with $40 and they send you a new one with your name on it, for another $115 you get collector plates good forever. They never have to see you or your car. Also, (at least in my county) there is no emissions testing for anything. There's a house for sale in Brillion if you're interested, I'm a part time realtor.

 

I have had to teach several *****s at the dmv about modelT vin numbers. Most of the T frames I have owned have had no vin stamp so I buy a junk engine block and use the vin off the engine block. They find it very hard to argue that it isnt a factory vin. If they have aproblem with that I have gone so far as to mount the block in a frame with a body and drag the whole mess down to dmv and let those nicely dressed ladies look for a vin on my rusty, dirty, nasty as I can make it car. That easy to see and not get dirty vin on that engine block looks real good at that point. Good luck.

 

good tips! Do those DMV *****es even know where the vin is or would be located? I say stamp your own on.

 

Did you thoroughly discuss this situation with the DMV?

I think maybe they were trying to blow you off......

Both Kentucky and Tennessee have a way to register a vehicle with NO VIN.

Basically, its recognized as "***embled from parts" and they issue you a STATE issued VIN which gets attached to your machine in a specific place....

On the ***le the vehicle is recognized as whatever it MOST RESEMBLES....

example yours would be 1927 Ford on the ***le.

Go back and don't take your ***le. Ask them if you can get it registered and have a state issued VIN. Who cares if it was built in 2006 (which it was) so long as its recognized as a 1927 Ford (which is what it is).

Know what I mean...?

For the record, I'm DONE with trying to ***le cars. If it don't have a clear ***le, I'm NOT buying it......TOO MUCH OF A HEADACHE.

Good luck.

TINGLER

 

yup- if the frame or body is changed, it will be reissued a number by DMV, and registered as a 2006 homebuilt, the model will be whatever you want it to be, but there's no way to make it a 1927 Ford. The reason being, they say it is no longer a 1927 Ford, and with that h***le brings new registration fees, new car taxes (the '27 is only taxed $9 now), smog checks, or if you have an old pre-68 block you have to get an exemption form every year and send that in with your registration. HUGE h***le, so there's no way I want it as a 2006.

When speaking with Model T Haven, he told me all T numbers, if stamped at all, were on the frame under the p***enger door. I argued with these DMV guys about that, but they are adamant about then being on the left side of the frame. They also commented about how the stampings don't match thye original style- I searched for months to find old style number stamps to match the originals, but no luck.

If it had been registered as a 1927 in another state, even when it came in and they notice the frame wasn't original, it would be ***led then as an '06. HOWEVER< this is A 1927 frame, just not THE 1927 frame. So I guess if I had a steel body and a matching numbers engine it would be fine, but like I said, now they ahve the VIN and are looking for it- I'm a marked man

It also didn't help the numbers were ground off my engine block- luckily they didn't notice that. I guess in Kansas it is pretty easy to do that sort of thing, but of the four or five different people I've talked to there, it's been a pretty consistent story- no frame or body changes allowed

I have the most important part- the ***le and the parts- but I just could not convince them to register it as a 27, they would have done it as a 2006, but I said forget it.

I talked about my options- and they told me I could sell the pile of parts and ***le to somebody in another state that doesn't have that rule, so that's probably my best option, then find a full on, un***embled original T, rather than this cobbled together T.

UGGHHHH, gotta get out of this state. Does Alaska have the same issues?!

 

DUDE! I am SOOO sorry to hear of your troubles! NVDMV ****S!!! I ****ing hate them!! They're all a bunch of A-holes that don't know what the hell they're talking about and they tax you on every little ****ing rediculous thing! Any angle they can screw you, it seems like they will!

In addition, it ****s they flagged you!! That's some horse ****! I agree with what someone said about DMV's trying to make you more "honest", but you're ultimately forced to do things the dishonest way!

I will say this though, I had to ***le my Triumph scoot in Nevada and I had ZERO paperwork. I used International ***le Services here in Vegas and they got me all taken care of with the ***le (which you have anyway), and had no problems (I was forced to stamp something, somewhere on the bike though ). I did have to go through the VIN inspection and that's where they kill you. What if you had NVNHP sign off that the VIN's matched the ***le you have showing it to be a 1927 Ford? I know you can download the form off the NVDMV website. Is there there a possibility that will work? I would like to see this "new" rule also. Give the DMV in Vegas a call and see what they have to say. Maybe there is some way you can have your **** inspected and registered down here. If you do come down here, give me a call and we'll have a beer and ***** about the NVDMV!

What was it going to cost you in taxes and other related B.S. charges to get it ***led as a special build, just curious? I wonder if insurance is insane for that type of placement in the system? I have a feeling I will be going through the same thing, except I don't have a ***le or anything, so I'm starting from scratch and the body won't look ANYTHING like a stock Model A.

Keep us posted and give Vegas a call...

 

I hate going to the DMV. We go there and practically beg them to take our money, and you get the run-around, hard time, bubble-bursting at***ude from some jerk that acts like YOU made them work there. The DMV needs compe***ion. They would have to take a crash course in customer service or they would be out of business in a week.

__________________

 

last I checked, and this may have changed since we started our T build, is they ***ess it an appraised value, not sure how they determine it, but then tax you off of that, and do it just like a new vehicle- in other words, they depreciate the value each year for nine years until it gets to the standard fee. On a 1927 though, they only tax you the LOWEST amount possible since it has already depreciated. So, not only do you pay the taxes on all the parts you buy, then they double tax you when you register it. Not to mention the smog issue, where you have to prove it is a pre-68 block every year and send in an exemption form. I thought about going to another inspection station, but now that I'm flagged with this ***le anyway........ I'm better off finding another complete original heap and ***ling that. I got the other two Model A's ***led no problem. And it really makes me mad, since the SAME guy ***led my coupe when the NUMBERS DIDN'T MATCH! He was really nice three months ago, and ran a teletype just to make sure it wasn't stolen, there were NO numbers on the frame and the engine had been swapped, and he still ***led it using the Washington ***le! Then he h***les me on this. It's total BS

 

I've heard that if you have an out of state ***le and put those numbers on your frame, then call your city's Constable he can do the number inspection for you.

Ya might call him and ask, not mentioning the DMV h***les.

 

I have a thought. What if you sold the ***le, scrubbed all your numbers, re-numbered the vehicle, and used the ITS or Broadway to get a "new" ***le for the numbers? If you can purchase a 27 frame that's all beat so you know you posses legal frame numbers of some kind (and nobody else does) then all you would have to do is match the rest. Just an idea. Or just purchase another ***le from someone that has clear history and re-number and go to a different inspection station, maybe even down here or in another town. I may have completely confused everyone with these thoughts. There has to be a way to get this registered as a '27!!

 

your dmv's got their facts mixed up...quoting from the model t restoration handbook by floyd clymer"...the engine number is also the serial number of the car and appears nowhere else but on the engine," the frame numbering didnt start til the model a. not that this will help you any but maybe if you could locate a junk t block and forget the ***le youve got. just tell them that the block number is the s/n of the car and if they try to tell you otherwise MAKE THEM PROVE IT

 

I like this solution...

I would like to see some proof of ANYTHING they are telling you. It doesn't sound right to me. Doesn't really make sense. That would mean that if you ever lost your ***le to a completely stock 1927 T and you had to alter the frame or body somewhere along the line (maybe not by choice, like in an accident, or for improvements to the car like addint a heater that mounted to the firewall) then it would no longer be a 1927 T... which obviously IT IS!

 

I think I would try a different DMV. Or possibly have a relative in a nieghboring state ***le it for you.
I've been selling historical do***ents for some time for similar vehicles and it's amazing what the DMV clerks think they know. I've heard lots of crazy stories but usually it's from California. I've never used and of the ***le services before but at one point "***les unlimited" was under investigation by the authorities in California because of Boyd Coddington. It's all about lost revenue and not so much about stolen vehicles.

 

yup- I brought this up. I said, "Well, how do I know that the frame wasn't damaged and this is a replacement for that". They said that at ANY point- even if it is a factory replacement frame, the numbers will need to be changed. If I had a new Chevy truck and changed the frame with a factory Chevy, they told me I would automatically need to get a new VIN and ***le it as a homebuilt. I asked if the same was true for the body- they said yes, if the body is ever replaced for any reason, it needs a new VIN. I politiely said I don't think that was the case since body swaps on hot rods are common and the frame/motor is where the numbers are, and they just said that legally, every one of them should be re***led since it was a "major component change".

Unfortunately I don't think an NHP officer can inspect it, a few years ago I asked who could inspect our T and they said that any licensed garage could, but not NHP. That may have changed, you know how it always does when you talk to somebody.

Next time I'll be going to another inspection station, but I think I'm marked as a trouble maker on this one, I'll need to find a different one altogether.

As for a ***le service, I won't go that route since all the other states are catching on from California that it is very common to use a ***le service to avoid taxes- and many registrations are being cancelled. That's why I looked long and hard for a state issued ***led car. It still has value- to somebody in a state where an "original" frame isn't a necessity.

I spoke with Model T Haven and he's willing to reapply for a ***le that he will fill out in a new owner's name as soon as I find a buyer.

 

What a bummer man! I hope you get this worked out! Good luck!

 

Looks like under section B an original manufacturers replacement frame would be OK and not force the new year designation.

This does appear to be the section they have chosen to pay attention to.

NAC 482.511 Duties of Department upon presentation of vehicle to obtain unique vehicle identification number. (NRS 481.051, 482.160) At the time the owner of a vehicle presents his vehicle to obtain a unique vehicle identification number, the Department will:
1. ***ign as the unique vehicle identification number:
(a) The vehicle identification number placed on the frame of the vehicle by the manufacturer, or previously by the Department, if the frame of the vehicle is not replaced;
(b) The public vehicle identification number for the vehicle if the vehicle has had its frame replaced with a frame that:
(1) Is manufactured for or by the original manufacturer of that vehicle;
(2) Is supplied by the manufacturer; and
(3) Does not have a vehicle identification number placed on it by the manufacturer; or
(c) A new number established by the Department if the vehicle:
(1) Is a:
(I) Reconstructed vehicle; or
(II) Specially constructed vehicle; or
(2) Has had its frame replaced with a frame other than a frame described in paragraph (b).
2. Record the unique vehicle identification number in the records of the Department as set forth in NRS 482.235.
3. Permanently stamp or attach the unique vehicle identification number, or confirm that the unique vehicle identification number is permanently stamped or attached, to:
(a) The frame, if applicable, and the pillar post for the left-hand door hinge or, if such placement is not appropriate, the left-hand side of the fire wall, under the hood; or
(b) If the vehicle is a motorcycle, the frame, as near as possible to the right-side down tube.
(Added to NAC by Dep&#8217;t of Motor Veh. by R038&#8209;04, eff. 11&#8209;2&#8209;2004)

From http://www.dmvnv.com/codebook.htm

 

Texas is getting funky about lot this stuff too., at least here where I'm at.

Last year when I bought my 32 it didnt have a ***le and when I called to see if I could file for a lost ***le I was told , and I quote " We will not file for a lost ***le unless you have the original ***le, A bill of sale wont do" I was dumbfounded by this, I asked her why are you here then. She told me to keep people from falsifing info inorder to steel cars. I asked if there was someone else in her office with a little more knowledge of the law I could speak to and she politely stated she was the only one in this office. I think she was on something, no one can be this dumb...



Needless to say I was able to get the orignal ***le from the previous owner and I'm waiting for my ***le to come in the mail (fingers crossed)

good luck to you...

 

That's the page alright!! One thing that's not clear by the way it's presented, is rather or not Just 3(b) was added on 11-2-2004 or if it is the entire section. Still seems like if you have a ***le and numbers to match that this should be a non-issue and they should move you along and let you pay whatever amount it is they want to **** you for.

 

argh! it ate my last reply!

anyhow, that looks like a promising page- the only thing I'd be worried about is that the DMV can stamp one of two numbers for you:

the "public vehicle identification number" which I would need because the frame is the non-original Ford manufactured frame

versus the "vehicle identification number placed on the frame of the vehicle by the manufacturer"

Is the "public" number the same as a new homebuilt registration number? Hmmm., I'll have to pay them a little visit



thanks guys

 

You said they want to register it as a 2006. What does that mean? Does it have to adhere to 2006 standards or is it just a 2006 specialty built car?

If you can register it as a 2006 special build and not have to adhere to 2006 standards why not do that? You aren't restoring a 1927 Model T so who cares what the ***le says as long as its legally yours.

 

2 main reasons- they will exempt it as far as safety standards, fenders, chops, and the like, they will at least cut you slack there. However, you will need to obtain a motor inspection swap form every single year stating that the engine is a pre-1968 and smog exempt. That is a huge pain that I want to avoid, second, the resale value of the car is hurt if it's not ***led as a '27. So, at all costs I want to avoid the 2006 on the ***le