ASKING advice

I can't really do anything other than wish you the best of luck, and I'm sorry that some pieces of shit had to ruin it for you. I can only imagine how angry I'd be....

 

Like most of the others on this tread I have no answers for you but be assured that we are behind you for what thats worth. Sometimes moral support and the karma that goes with it helps a lot.
I wish you the best and will pray for you and yours.

 

This is horrible. As the others said, you need to get a lawyer and file now. It'll give you the time and space to regroup and do the things you want to do, whether it be finishing things and commitments or what. But with people knocking and threatening you pretty much don't have any alternative. You're wide open for "them" to get the rest of the way in your pockets right now. Filing will stop absolutely everything. All you have to do is tell anyone that comes at you after that to call your lawyer. Consequently he'll be able & obliged to give you the advice you're asking for here, all the while you've got the relief to regroup. Do it before someone sends you back to square one like a dead broke 18 year old. Good luck.

 

HMMM..A couple of things comes to mind here.

1. You were doing business in a shop separate from your home, Correct? In the state of Arizona did you file with the Corporation Commission? As an Individual? as a LLC, a full blown corporation? or nothing? You had to pay taxes to the state some how as a business.

2. Even though you did the deal on a hand shake, were you acting as the owner operator of the business?

3. Even though this was done with a hand shake, He too does not have a leg to stand on, he cannot prove you did agree to anything, any more than you can. There is no paper trail to prove one way or another. If push comes to shove, this is one of those things that has to go to "Judge Judy" and who ever has the most convincing story to tell and back up their story.

Next, there was some advise above me that said to file for a homestead exemption, Good advise....

Granted the housing market was up down there, and now it's in the slump, but I would HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY suggest you do not sell your home, to cover the losses.

You are going to get advise from us H.A.M.B.'s here, but I would highly suggest you obtain proper legal council.

Now this is just my opinion here, I think you would be better off to let him go ahead and take this to court, the worst that could happen there is for him to get a judgement against you for the amount. And there again, it is on him to prove how he has suffered a financial loss. IF it came to having a judgement against you, that would be far better than having a bankruptcy in your file.

A lien cannot be filed against your home, unless there is non payment of the judgment. If there is payment being made on a judgment, then that will stay a lien.

Bottom line, do seek legal advise before you do anything rash or foolish. Your decisions not only affect you personally, but your family as well, and you must take their interests into account too.

Best wishes, and good luck,


HellRaiser

 

As a bankruptcy filer myself, I can say this...

You can choose what to include in the filings. If you don't want it included, don't file it.

However, mine was before the law changed last year. Do I feel shitty about it, yes. But, when you're making 1/3rd of what you did before, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

If you have any questions, I can answer them to the best of my ability. But the BEST advise is to seek legal counsel, they will be the best info source.

Good luck, and prayers.

Jay

 

I wish the prick that went bankrupt on me would have worked to pay off his debt....I'm just looking to break a pinstriper's fingers now, not for the money!

I wish you the best of luck, with whatever you decide.

 

I'd go to court. At least talk to a lawyer.

 

This is great advice. My sister is in the lending business and things are going down fast here in CA also. Selling the house would be the absolute last resort I would think.
The "corporation" comment is also a good one. Maybe too late for you, but anyone thinking about setting up their own business should learn more about this. In architecture school, an instructor of mine was explaining this to us. When you are dealing with peoples homes, you need to be sure your ass is covered in case you get sued.
I also thought the comment of a nice letter to your customers explaining the whole situation was good. The fact that you intend to honor your contracts while taking a loss speaks volumes. Good luck man!

 

Its a crying shame America has become such a sue happy nation . Good luck Bro.

 

My feelings also. Remember, there are several types of bankruptcy. If I'm correct, Chapter 11 allows you to retain your assets while formulating a plan , paying either in finished product or cash your creditors while not being bothered by them.. Since you're not planning on going back into the rod building business this seems like a fair way to settle your debts without losing your home. BTW, Chapter 7 still protects your home, cars, loans (if you want to keep them) and such but you just have to jump through some loops. But hopefully you won't have to go that route.

This is no putdown so please don't consider it as such, but starting a business based on a hobby or parttime fun gig may not a great idea. I did it myself, selling used cars and parts, lost everything and ended up on Welfare for a couple of months to have eating money....

Wishing you the very best!

Jan

 

hey man,
just keep you chin up & keep doing what you think is the right thing...

... that me friend is the only thing that will let you sleep at night.

fuck what everybody else thinks.

 

You've gotten some good advice. I feel for you and your family. I think the idea of writing to these customers explaining the circumstances and stating that you will stand behind your product is a good idea. I would add, that YOU MUST GET THEM TO AGREE TO THE CHANGE IN CONTRACT IN WRITING. If not, this letter is nice and a good idea but in no way protects you legally.

My only additional suggestion is to fulfill your written contact explicitly with each of the cars remaining. If it's not in writing, don't do it.

While filing bankruptcy is harmful for a while, it is not the end of the world. I filed about 12 years ago and it was difficult for awhile. However, it forced me to live on a cash basis rather than credit and now I've opened my shop, with cash and cash in the bank and owing noone anything in my life except for my house mortgage. So I guess in short, it's hurtful, but if you deal with it correctly, you'll come out even better than before.

And as someone else said, you can still finish the cars for the owners but you won't be legally liable for breach of contract for not delivering as promised. Remember, anyone CAN sue for anything, even if they don't win, it will drive you further into debt and despair.

Good luck and I wil be praying for you.

 

I don't want to really sidetrack the thread, but giving incorrect information in this situation (or another like it) is counter-productive. No business entity protects the individual from personal liability. Just because he had an LLC or a corporation, he WOULD NOT be protected because he is doing the work. Those entities only protect him from liability if someone working for him creates the issue. Your advice above just passes on a huge myth which needs to be squashed.

 

Take the time to map out a proper plan for yourself. Seek the advise of the professionals, in this case an attourney that specializes in this area of law and a certified financial planner. It may seem an expense that is not necessary at this time but good professional advise is priceless in the long run.
Wishing you the best in the future.

 

I mean this in no way to be a harsh statement...but if a lack of legal advice got you where you are...then I would stop making decisions and ask a lawyer what to do next.

For instance...lawyers can get court injunctions to freeze a business from being sued till they have time to complete their obligations...which gets the assholes off their back. This is like a several hundred dollar deal (no biggie)...and it stops the cops from coming to your door...and will help you sleep better at night.

I think you have the ticket...build a car to suit you and sell it. The only time you have to deal with a customer is to take his money and watch him drive away. You don't have to hassel with..."I have been thinking and changed my mind about this thing or that." Let them buy what you have built.

Anyway...good luck with your deal. Put your family first and screw the rest. You are not first...nor will you be the last to have to go thru this kind of deal. This will pass...and you will be fine. Forget the money and hold on to your happiness...that is all that counts. We are here for you....Ron.

 

I'm not clear on what advice you're looking for here? But, i'll give it a shot. "IF", it's at all possible, build one of these cars completely while monitoring all expenses. ALL (time-money-materials). Then you've got a starting point. Obviously, you'll add from there any options. Also, it's HALF up front, 25% in the middle, and 25% final payment on completion. If the customer doesn't accept, fuck him. This way you're working with his money, not yours. And if there's any discrepency at the end, you're only arguing for 25%. You'll win this argument. His car's done, it's sitting right in front of him, and all he needs to do is give you final payment (CASH ONLY for the final) and he drives his car

 

Man that really sucks but the best advice you have received here is to hire a lawyer. I admire you for trying to make things right but you have to protect youself and your family. Good Luck

 

I empathsize with your situation. I have my own shop and go through all kinds of frustration every week, unreasonable customers, cheap bastards looking to get something for nothing, none paying or slow paying, customers who think you are rich and can afford to eat any cost overruns. But, on the bright side I am doing what I like and there are some really great customers out there, that are amazinly good to deal with. Just hope that I can keep the door open and keep doing what I love.

 

I live in AZ, I don't think we've ever met but I would hope to. Sounds like you have a good heart, just hang in there. Maybe I can help sometime, who knows???
Peace Brother,

John

 

JD I don't know where you get your information but you are wrong. The purpose of an LLC is to protect the owners from personal loss if the corporation fails as opposed to a sole proprietorship or a partnership. When the LLC is in place, creditors can only go after the assests of the corporation not the individual. Why else would there be corporations? I'm not talking about insurance liabilities that are covered under general liability and umbrella policies, I'm talking about incorporation. Geez, you think I just make this shit up?

 

I wish you were closer, I know my crew would kick in manhours to help a guy trying to do the right thing. Keep us posted. Try not to sell the house!!!

 

Aman you are extremely close, but let me elaborate: An LLC protects members of the LLC from the negligent actions of other members. An LLC really benefits doctors groups, etc, where there is a group of same level professionals. The idea is to have a group corporation, but if one member gets sued, the other members in the group avoid liability. *What you describe as an LLC is a strict corporation.


Also let me say that contracts (and an agreement to build a hot rod is a contract) get renegotiated all the time. If any of SRI's customers want to go to court, or arbitration, they may find that the terms of the agreement (contract) get renegotiated in more favorable terms for SRI. Contract law exists to ensure fairness, not as a written agreement to hold one party over a barrel. Yes, people make bad decisions all the time, but contracts that are grossly unfair are usually found to be unenforceable. Also, his good faith efforts will work in his favor.


Lastly, paraphrasing a businessman that once borrowed huge amounts of money to do land speculation: "When banks have lent you this much money, you don't have creditors, you have partners" (in other words, your customers have to work with you or they will recover very little).


Kudos to SRI for the integrity.

 

I guess I may have confused a few people when I said incorporation. The LLC is a Company and not bound buy state incorporation laws. It's a go between, from sole proprietor/partnerships to corporations, that allows small business to structure themselves in a manner that provides creditor protection. It can be set up as a single person or group of people. As I stated before, it allows you to draw that "line in the sand" that seperates personal assets from the corporate assets so you won't lose your house to the people you owe money too. If that isn't clear enough, refer to the first paragraph in this link http://www.llc.com/state_Arizona_LLC.html. Maybe that will help. I don't want to continue this debate and waste anymore time on busines entity structures. It's too late for this now in regards to SRI's problem. But, others can learn here and start to question if they need to review with their professional advisors, attorneys, accountants, etc. whether or not they have proper protection under the law. I would think that a SP or Partnership in this day and age of litigation and dishonesty would be a mistake for anybody in business above the level of grass cutter. My company has gone through two reorganizations in the last four years. It drives me nuts but it's a necessary evil nowadays.

Guys, I'm just trying to help here, I didn't intend on starting a lengthy debate. How you organize your company is your business but good, honest, creative folks aren't necessarily good business people. If nothing else, I hope I raised some questions, and hopefully, some answers for people in business for themselves. If it helps just one business from going under I'll be happy. Chow for now!

 

I would also recommend an attorney. If you think you can't afford one look into prepaid legal service. You can sign up for as little as 35 bucks and be able to call and get free consultations on an unlimited amount of different matters and if you get sued you will already have a law firm on retainer....with already paid for hours. Worst case condition you get your attorney at a 25% discount.
Sorry to sound like spam but a lot of people have never heard of pre paid and think they can't afford a good attorney..even for just a consult. I have used their services and highly recommend them ....so much that I signed up as an associate. Also if you don't like it after you tried it you can cancel at any time....no long term contract (because most people like the service and keep it)

 

sri- You should change your tag line. You don't seem like an asshole.

 

I have never run a business (at least not licensed); I used to work on cars out of my house, but I'm pulling for ya'.

Sounds to me like it's none too early to 'lawyer up'.

One more thing: read a biography of Harry Truman.

bttt for someone with answers to find the thread...

-bill

 

sri, your next post better say; "well, i got a lawyer and...."
maybe talk to an accountant, too.
bankruptcy ain't the end of the world, it was designed for the honest guy but then EVERYBODY started using it for bullshit...
no shame in what you're trying to do, but there's no point in losing everything IF you don't have to...

 

You want intelligent advice.

Get off the HAMB and get a lawyer ASAP

And do not consider selling your house.

 

I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the HAMB. WTF? I'm with Roadstar on this one and tomslik is on it as well.

One of my best friends from HS is a lawyer. I rip on her about it all the time but when I need SOUND advice on this kind of stuff, she's who I call. Sometimes I can even get her to speak like a human so I can understand her. If I do it over lunch, she doesn't charge me...

 

After reading all of the posts I have got to ask
WHAT ABOUT THE CUSTOMER ?
The guy that contracted to have a car built based on the 4 month time to build given. Paid the down, paid the progress payments, made no changes except those agreeded apon face to face and added the extra time in for the changes made. 12 months later no car and no communication.
It is not always about the builder.