Just curious, does any state just let you stamp a frame, or will I get stuck with a cheesy modern anodized aluminum plaque on my firewall.
I think some (most?) use tamper proof aluminum stickers now with the state logo and the new number embossed.
In Iowa you get a cheezie "sticker" on the drivers door post I just keep my door shut so no one can see it More or less.
I would imagine that just about all states are going to go with some variation of "Original Manufacturer serial number or Vehicle Identification Number OR if not present, a State Issued Vehicle Identification Number" and not recognize "JOE BLOW BACKYARD STAMPED MADE UP NUMBER".
My Iowa VIN sticker. The only reason I took this pic was to prove to an insurance company that it was registered legitimately so they would pay a claim. I think I would have been SOL without it. Gary
Bottom line is you’ll get what the state issues, and be glad you’ve got it. So you can insure and drive the car. Not to mention fraud charges for “beating the system”
You start stamping in a VIN you could end up donating your vehicle to the state with you in the pokey
Where you would get in trouble is stamping the assigned vin in the frame and then removing the state's tag. If you are worried about it being damaged like the one on my sailboat trailer you could stamp it next to or in a hidden spot and go something like NC assigned vin _____________. My T had a Texas assigned vin, my sailboat trailer has one from washington that used to be a nice aluminum tag with the number stamped in it and some offical printing held on with special rivets that you can't buy in the store. The patrolman drilled the holes and put the tag in place. There are a number of rods running around this area with those tags and I don't think that there is any stigma about it as there was 50 years ago.
The state tag is the VIN tag, it’s a federal crime to remove it. The only legal way to remove it is in front of the DOT officer or who ever deals with Vin tags on cars in your state. I would think that they should have stamped the VIN in the frame in addition to the tag. I converted my shop truck from two wheel drive to four I swapped a complete frame and running gear under my cab and box, I got a new vin tag on the door jamb and he stamped the new vin on the frame.
It is legal to stamp numbers now when it is done by a small volume builder of hot rods, I think they have to build at least 10 a year.
I think there’s more to it than that (volume). I for got what reality show I used to watch, (MC one maybe?) but they were allowed to stamp numbers, but were also a registered manufacture in the state they were in. No clue what else was involved, but I’m sure a cost was, which is passed to the consumer. I guess what I’m saying is you’re a kick ass builder that can do X-amount of cars a year, you can’t just stamp numbers and all will be good.
It's been 20 years but when I registered my '31 A as "street rod" here in PA, they vacated my "regular car" VIN and sent me another tag to replace it on the firewall.
Really, how many of you have been run down just to check your vin number? I know some cops will check the vin against the tag to spot a switched tag, but most of them around here just run the tag and the DMV tells them what it’s supposed to be on. AFTER I got the state issued tag and it put on, yeah I might stamp those numbers in the frame somewhere inconspicuous in case the tag ever fell off or got damaged so badly it couldn’t be read. You wouldn’t be altering the number, just making it more permanent. And if you’re scared to do that, find a cop that likes hot rods and supply the soda pops and let him watch you stamp it. He signs a simple statement that he witnessed it, should be ok unless you get a hanging judge!
When I built my first hot rod, it was a 1922 model T and of course didn't have a vin. I took it down to the CHP and he put the blue tag on my damn dash! and then stamped the numbers in the frame also. This was a little more than 20 years ago.
Try crashing your car and then your insurance will not cover you because the VIN is not correct on your car, problematic or almost correct don’t do you a damn bit of good. If your insurance company can find a way out they will., and yes they do verify the VIN numbers.
It's my understanding that they also need to supply a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin. https://www.dirtlegal.com/blog/what-is-a-cars-mso-or-mco-when-do-you-need-one
You can have an AZ vin assigned if you have an MSO or if, in a state search, they find nothing stolen. See my ad for my dad's 56 Vette in the car for sale and see what I am talking about.
So...........I know some will disagree...........but if you have an old original frame with a stamped number but don't have the title to go with it.............don't many states have a way to get a replacement title? Second, many people put 32 frames under Model A vehicles. What would be wrong with stamping the Model A number on the new frame before installing the Model A body ? Basically that's no different than replacing a 49 Chevy Truck Body on an S-10 frame and licensing it. And THEN..............there is getting a good title for a defunct Model A and using it for a vehicle that has been progressively modified from an A . Like you had a Model A and sat it on a 32 frame. Later the car got damaged and you changed to an available 32 Body..............is that really any different from all the ones with one companies body sitting on another companies frame with yet a nother companies engine in it?
ekimneirbo, what you are describing is building a vehicle out of many parts. This is hot rodding. This is also an issue with collectible cars and the 'provenance' of some stuff where the car was crashed and parted out, then got valuable. One guy starts with the body and 'restores it', and another guy finds the frame and 'restores it'. Now there are 2 "bitsas" both with the same single number. That's one reason why the states (and countries) have developed a process to officially define the legal title for the vehicle. Since this is of great interest to law and insurance, the laws of the 50 states while often varying have some solid similarities. If it's a 29 body on a 32 chassis, it is no longer either a 1929 Ford or a 1932 Ford. I can't speak for any single state government let alone 50, but if you have a numbered frame with no title, they are probably not going to reissue a new title to what is an incomplete car. I'd say while a lot of older cars assembled with OE parts (not a P&J frame with a Brookville body) may have a title showing one or the other, anything built in the recent past would be probably be required to have a new state VIN, even if they don't have one. This may be something that is overlooked and ignored until something happens that involves either law or insurance. Then the owner may find that the issue gets much bigger. The link I shared talks about building your own vehicle and glosses over how to do this in each state because there are 50 different processes. There was a guy who was assembling cars with different parts and using old titles. The state didn't like that, because they were expecting XXXX Ford would be worth a certain amount of money and they taxed them by that value. You may have heard his name. https://www.motortrend.com/news/0501kc-special-vehicle-registration/ BTW, "bitsa" is a common term for this in car circles. https://barnfinds.com/its-a-bitsa-1956-corvette-sr-tribute/ https://www.sportscarmarket.com/profile/1927-mercedes-benz-s-ssk-bitsa https://www.vintag.es/2022/05/anycars.html
In Iowa you can get a Bonded Title. Requires all kinds of photos, maybe an inspection, a surety bond, and lots of paperwork. I've done it twice, my brother a few times, and my nephew just recently completed one.
Great! Glad you were able to get it done. I would prefer reasonable ways for people to navigate the process of getting their passion up, running and legal. Make no mistake, I am not arguing for the labyrinth of laws, codes and Terms & Conditions of the modern world because I think they are great. They are a pain and difficult to navigate. However, I will try to explain what little I know about them and can see why some have had to be implemented. There is always someone who is going to wash a title, roll back an odometer, or somehow try to increase the value of an item to enrich themselves. Occasionally I'd like to be able to trace past ownership of a car and reach out to previous owners. I'd also like not to be bothered by the odd cold call from someone in the middle of the night or worse. https://allthatsinteresting.com/rebecca-schaeffer The fact that here in AZ the MVD will not provide info to individuals but sells personal information to companies (and PIs, read the story) is IMHO a half measure at best. Anything to make a buck. https://www.vice.com/en/article/pky8a8/dmv-mvd-sell-photo-ssn-private-investigators#:~:text=The Arizona Motor Vehicle Department (MVD), essentially the,to a private investigator and the department itself.
As long as the 'cheesy aluminium tag' isn't staring you in the face as you cruise down the road, who cares?
I just purchased my hot rod, my aviator. It was built in California. It’s a ‘30 body on a ‘29 frame. California titled it as a ‘29 with an aluminum stamped vin plate. So, do I have a ‘30 or ‘29? I just call it my ‘29/‘30 coupster. It’s a coupe cutdown to a roadster.
\ Answered and asked. When you look at the title, it says 29. When the insurance covers it, it's a 29. When an appraiser inspects it, it's a 29. Now maybe a restorer or knowledgeable rodder may pick out the 30 parts, but for any situation where it goes beyond talk, it's a 29.
Doing so by an individual is considered VIN tampering, and can be charged as a federal felony. https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm...removing-motor-vehicle-identification-numbers Getting caught can put you in jail for a few years, get you a hefty fine, and make it very hard for you to get a job, or get a place to live. Local laws apply too, so you might get tried on the state-level, too. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't, but this is a stupid gamble to take over a plaque. Research your state's laws and follow those. That will be easier on you, and the rest of the community.
I'm only familiar with Fords,, ""Pre War "" Fords body Do Not have a S# ,,,, Only the frame , A FoMoCo Title/Vin # is for Frame , Engine , Trains & Rear , ""No Body"" ,, Technically ""For example "" if you Put a Model ""A""" body on 32 Original frame rails It should be Title with a Original FoMoCo 32 vin Title as 32 Or A State Reassign Vin number If a after market Frame A State reassign number that will reflect to what Ever yr of body & now includes the Frame , Body & Frame going forward... Most Reassign Vin going back to late 70s In Va , tag was put on frame or in Door jam, I have seen afew on fire wall ,
In Kansas, if you have a vin, and a bill of sale you can get a title with an inspection. I have had assigned vin's before. The trooper stamped the same number on the frame as the door post tag. I agree in the sentiment that at least it allows us to title and drive. The trooper who has come to do my last couple of inspections is very accommodating in providing info to do our job. He seems to think that it is better to help than hinder.
You will be stuck, unless you already have or apply for a title with the existing frame number.. Follow the paperwork and play nice.
In my case I did not do the bonding for title process in Colorado to get a assigned VIN. But I have reviewed the process and was prepared to do it for a pile of parts. It is not hard, it just takes an effort to keep records of parts acquired, receipts / bill of sale / etc, pictures do help. And it will take time. Such and such part acquired from at a swap meet on (date) from a unknown seller is an acceptable element of the paper work submitted. The bonding process in Colorado basically requires the actual car to be a reasonable representation of what you say the car is on the paper work you submit. This process does require LEO inspections and those inspectors are more interested in safety than in accurate descriptions of the parts. I have seen 30/31 roadsters and coupes and worse titled as 32 model year Fords. You can find this stuff on craigslist all the time. In recent years I purchased 2 1931 Fords from out of state sellers. Both cars came with titles from the previous state, Iowa and Arkansas. In both cases a previous owner did the paper work to get a pile of parts titled (assigned VIN) per the requirements in those states. Colorado DMV told me this based on the VIN on the titles I had from those states and that the process in those states is similar to Colorado. In both cases the VIN has a letter A in position 1 followed by a 7 digit number. The A is a flag that the VIN was assigned. Seams there is nationwide agreement between some/most/all ? states to do VIN assignment numbering in this fashion. Colorado has no requirement on how nor where the number is attached to the vehicle. The requirement is that the VIN be attached and of course that VIN matches the paper work being presented. DMV process requires a designated Colorado LEO do this validation. My Iowa purchase was a completed / painted driver. It did not come with any cheesy sticker, attached stamped tag nor a direct stamping, anywhere. I have had that car completely apart and could not find it. Maybe it was painted over. I did find some figures stamped in the body cross member in front of the driver's seat that may have been factory stamping. I also found find Pete-n-Jakes serial number on the frame and PnJ did validate the purchaser name that was also in the paperwork history I got with the car. The seller I bought from was not the builder, the car had changed hands. The PnJ serial nor the body cross member figures are represented in the VIN. The car and all the parts included did match the description on the seller signed title and some insurance receipts. My Arkansas purchase is a basket case but also with no attached VIN anywhere. All of the parts do match the year and description on the seller signed title. With the exception of a 32 grill/radiator, which to me is an acceptable exception. In both cases I acquired a stamped aluminum tag matching the paperwork for each car and attached those plates to body sheetmetal prior to the LEO inspection. Did I perpetuate a fraud? Maybe, but likely not. Per my discussion with the LEO that did the inspections, they do a nationwide VIN search to see if the VIN has been reported stolen, neither had been. But they also do fussy searching without the VIN using accurate but varying descriptions of each car, also none reported stolen. Both inspections were approved and I have accurately titled cars.
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