At what point does performance hinder driveability?

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Forget about converter stall speeds and lockup and all that silliness, and just mate the motor to a stout manual five-speed with a diaphragm clutch and then select your final-drive ratio accordingly.

You won't miss a lick and won't be embarr***ed on the street or elsewhere.


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Have you been reading my mail?

I actually have been looking for a small journal 327 crank(preferred) but they are starting to dry up. If you do find one they are either 500 miles away and freight would eat my lunch or they think they have a "collectors item".

I want a 6" rod 327. That's what I am searching for. I would like to save the 283 for my son's 36.

 

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If you can't drive it to work everyday, then jump in it and do a 2500 mile round trip to the HAMB Drags, IT AIN'T A ****IN STREET CAR!!!!!!

-Abone.


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Amen Brother.

Later, Mark

 

"At what point does performance hinder driveability?"

as soon as I start to second guess if its gonna be reliable or not

 

A few years ago, a buddy of mine built a 79 camaro up with a 327. It had an extremely rowdy cam, highrise with a 850DP, 3000rpm stall on a TH350, and 4.11 rear. Should have been a "fun" car, but it was just a pain in the ***. It wouldn't idle for a damn... when the doors were open, at the end of the door it would shake up and down about 6".. it constantly shook things loose. It had too much stall to use on the typically 45mph streets too. He and another buddy were drunk and had it out on a side street, and neutral dropped it, and blew the friggin valve body out of the trans pan. Bent a couple of valves too. No big loss, he traded the parts off for other parts.

Anyhow, the moral of the story is that my friends are dumb***es. And I agree that more displacement is better, but even that has a point. I was reading at the caddy 500 forum about some kid with a 82 Cutl*** with a caddy 500. He was getting pissed with the car because he couldn't get any traction... it would just smoke the tires at every take off. Some people you just can't please...

 

You wanna run a blown SBC on the street and be able to drive it anywhere?

Not impossible...

The key to making big power with a supercharged engine is to start with a LOW static compression ratio and use the blower to pack it in and stuff the cylinders! To a lesser extent, this can help you out with your street blower motor, too.

By building your engine with dedicated "blower pistons" in it, and large chamber heads, your static compression ration can be as lows as 6 or 7 to 1 if you wanna make it that way. Doing so will allow you to run a moderate amount of boost (maybe 3-6psi) and still be within the realm of pump gas.

By contrast, if you start off with a 9:1 engine...or even an 8:1 engine...a few pounds of boost will put you into racing gas territory.

To make a blown engine live a good long time on the street, I'd lean towards having it O-ringed, run forged blower pistons with a substantial "dish", make sure the combustion chambers are smooth and free of any edges that may create 'hot spots' and induce detonation, and run a 'blower cam' designed for your application.

In addition, a heavy duty cooling system should be a priority, too...blower motors make HEAT...and you want to be able to drive this thing on the street without worry...keeping it cool will go a long way towards that goal!

Like any other engine...carefull ***embly and attention to detail are required, tuning is ultra critical, and you'll need to run premium unleaded pump gas...but the notion of making a 6-71 huffed small block docile enough to drive anywhere, yet still potent enough to be fun isn't THAT outrageous...especially with today's technology and parts availability. Go for it!

(You can always switch pulleys and up the boost when MORE power is desired...making a blown engine a pretty versitile performance package if you plan it right!)

 

[ QUOTE ]
You wanna run a blown SBC on the street and be able to drive it anywhere?

Not impossible...

The key to making big power with a supercharged engine is to start with a LOW static compression ratio and use the blower to pack it in and stuff the cylinders! To a lesser extent, this can help you out with your street blower motor, too.

By building your engine with dedicated "blower pistons" in it, and large chamber heads, your static compression ration can be as lows as 6 or 7 to 1 if you wanna make it that way. Doing so will allow you to run a moderate amount of boost (maybe 3-6psi) and still be within the realm of pump gas.

By contrast, if you start off with a 9:1 engine...or even an 8:1 engine...a few pounds of boost will put you into racing gas territory.

To make a blown engine live a good long time on the street, I'd lean towards having it O-ringed, run forged blower pistons with a substantial "dish", make sure the combustion chambers are smooth and free of any edges that may create 'hot spots' and induce detonation, and run a 'blower cam' designed for your application.

In addition, a heavy duty cooling system should be a priority, too...blower motors make HEAT...and you want to be able to drive this thing on the street without worry...keeping it cool will go a long way towards that goal!

Like any other engine...carefull ***embly and attention to detail are required, tuning is ultra critical, and you'll need to run premium unleaded pump gas...but the notion of making a 6-71 huffed small block docile enough to drive anywhere, yet still potent enough to be fun isn't THAT outrageous...especially with today's technology and parts availability. Go for it!

(You can always switch pulleys and up the boost when MORE power is desired...making a blown engine a pretty versitile performance package if you plan it right!)



[/ QUOTE ] <font color="green">ALL RIGHT!!!

You wait one damn minute.....WHOEVER YOU ARE!!!

What have you done with the REAL "FATHACK."

</font>

 

When you step on it at highway speeds and it lays a patch, you've got to much power for the road.

Me, I like the "package" if the numbers count... add a blower. If you want something that "works" get a nice setup that puts out a flat torque band with a reasonable redline. The "package" makes the car!

 

Root, good post, and some really good thoughts-facts too.

A few thing's i like to keep in mind are,
-Running pump gas..
-running cool, i can't stand worrying about overheating if you have to sit in traffic.
-and a decent streetable gear..ya know, being able to go over 50 if ya want.

The combo i have in my '32 is fairly simple, and VERY drivable..
I too am not really big on 350's, only because they seem to be the ci of choice for so many..i like 283-327's most.

It's a 30 over 283, 8.5:1 comp, larger chamber 'camel hump' heads W/ 1.94-1.6 valves with blending-port-polish work,and a thicker head gasket.
Lunati bracket master cam, 230ish duration @50 thou, and 500 lift ( i built it a while ago and don't remember the actual specs).
Dyers V 6-71 huffer (underdriven), dual carter 500's, tied together not progressive..
Being such a small motor about288ci, and the blower is about300ci, you can underdrive the blower quite a bit and still produce boost..
ie: 12% under on a 355, is going to produce less cylinder pressure than 12% under on a 288..thus, you can spin the blower at say, 18% under on the little motor and get simmilar boost pressure as 12% on the 355..
( this is just a quick example)

Ignition...Gm points dizzy with Pertronics kit and flame thrower coil.

I'm running a 4 speed, and 3.00:1 rear and 30" tall rear tires.

The cooling system is a Walker rad, Stewart high flow wp, Stewart high flow thermostat, and March underdrive (better cooling) pulleys.

It NEVER get's hot..190 is the hottest it ever gotten, and thats cruising around fairgrounds at events.

The high gears/ tall tires effect the low end, off the line power unless you dump the clutch..then it's balls out.

But the way it sits right now, it's plenty fast for the street, and can literally hit the interstate and cruise at 85mph until you run out of gas (about 9 mpg).

We just came back from the Syracuse Nats, and ran 80 the whole way home..about 90 miles non stop.

To *me* it has the in your face look, sound's snotty as hell and has a nice compromise of power and drivability..

I think this is kinda what you were thinking...maybe not

Tony.

 

Ha Ha Ha...believe it or not, Rashy...I know small blocks, and messed with them for YEARS...always wanted a 6-71 squeezed mouse motor in something like a 56 Chevy...but could never afford it. Eventually got bored with small block Chevys...but not before I formulated a few build plans...just in case I ever ventured back!

 

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If gas wasn't $6 a gallon I'd build one myself over this side of the pond

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It's closer to $9.....

Dave

 

I have a 57 Chevy with a bbc 468 alum heads, headers. cam has over .5 lift, everthing has been balanced, ported and matched. Should be a 10 second car best so far 12:17 can not get it to hook up. It is fun to drive on the street for a cruise night, if things go well i will trailer it to the hamb drags. There is no way i would drive it 2000 miles. Tow car 70 chevy pu with a sbc 383 202 heads t5 camaro ******. it is fun to drive, as is the 57. When deso the 57 become not fun to drive , any time it is over 30 miles. If it were my only hot rod it would be lots milder still a 4sp cause that is the only true hot rod.

 

Getting in this late, but I think the line is pump gas and reliable enough that you don't have to do any major tune-up/maintenance to make a 2000 mile trip.

My 38 Chevy has about 450 real hp, as verified by the fact i used to drag race this eaxcat motor to high 10's in a 2800 lb car. It is a flat-top 8.5:1 compression 468 (.060 over 454) with a very big cam (253 degrees at .050 and .575 lift), 700R4 trans, and 3.70 gears. Runs all day long about 2500 rpms at 75 mph, 13 mpg while doing it. Sounds healthy as can be, uses the cheapest regular gas without troubles.

Sure it is not the smoothest engine, it doesn;t even smoothout until about 2500 rpms. But it has the fairgrounds cruise idle that can't be beat, can run anywhere in any temps, and reasonable mileage to boot. It is in my estimation about the edge of real streetability, but of course I am biased and others may feel I am past the edge.

 

38Chevy454 makes a good point.Different people will draw the line in different places.

I would draw the line where I felt the performance gains didn't justify the extra h***le.

 

Metalshapes " Nailed-It".

When a driver has to be given instructions on how to start-it and keep it running, watch the temp gauge, oh...and the oil pressure gauge,...be sure and slip-it into neutral at the stop-lights.........
We all have been there, or at least with somebody who has.
Yea, it's all cool, but as for real drivers????? ...naw.

AHotRod

 

Well, what is it with modern street rods, the main stram magazine type cars, and performance??? I would lump the early NSRA types and the sixties street machine muscle cars together on this. Drive anywhere around a major hot rod event on interstates and the hot rods are BLOCKING TRAFFIC!! This really hit me in the face after York this summer--ALL the rods heading away from the show were running WELL below traffic speeds, with little old ladies in Volvos screaming past. This included radicl blower cartoon cars, cars with stock 2004 Lincoln drive trains, and everything else!! Thousands of rods, probably averaging well over 350 hp each, ALL driving at lower speeds than original early Fords run on the highway.
WTF?? Is anybody building anything driveable? I'm not talking about just adult behavior versus peeling out at every light--I'm talking about an endless line of cars going down the slow lane slower than anyone else out there. Cars running alone as welll as those in convoy. Unanimously. I'm sure none of these people travel the interstates at 57 MPH in their late model--what exactly did they build there rods for?

 

If it's got:

-less than 12 inches of vacuum at idle
-less than 10 gallon fuel capacity
-a 'fuel requirement' beyond pump gas
-more than 3,000 rpm stall speed
-about 5 minutes of life in traffic standing still before it overheats
-a minimal wait after its been turned off before it can be restarted
-more than a 1,000 rpm drop when the trans goes from "P" to "D"

..then it's not a street car...


Scotch~!

 

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Drive anywhere around a major hot rod event on interstates and the hot rods are BLOCKING TRAFFIC!! This really hit me in the face after York this summer--ALL the rods heading away from the show were running WELL below traffic speeds, I'm sure none of these people travel the interstates at 57 MPH in their late model--what exactly did they build there rods for?

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I believe that MOST of the cars you mention...............do NOT have a correct speedometer.

So they drive slow.......

A bunch of folks (some HAMBERS too), do not have a clue as how to dial in a speedometer.

 

Some of us know what the left lane is for......

I will second the comment about incorrect speedometers. I have been told over and over about how fast I drive, etc. I control my speed by timing mile markers, and can usually hold speed to within 2 mph or so. The stopwatch doesn't lie..... and 45 seconds a mile is exactly 80 mph. I figure if the other citizens are jamming along at that pace, I should as well.

 

I found that I LOVE VDO programmable gauges. I have never had much luck swapping cluster gears etc. I always got close but not accurate...so I gave up. Now every freaking hot rod I build will have a VDO speedo. Traditional? No? Dependable? Yes.