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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Twin6....That's neat maybe Buildy knows more about it.
     
  2. Ken_Schou
    Joined: Oct 6, 2009
    Posts: 822

    Ken_Schou
    Member


    If the Coney Island Motordrome and the Dreamland Motordrome in Brooklyn, NY were "mini motordrome amusement park tracks" did they host any type of racing/competition or just thrill show type of exibitions? .... If racing/competition, when, etc?

    THANKS in advance.
     
  3. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Hi Twin 6 and T-Head,

    I don`t know any details on the car,but I would suspect it probably ran at the York Fairgrounds.
     
  4. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,941

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Fashion statment, body work, or aero package?:rolleyes:
     

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  5. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    As far as i know these small saucer shaped tracks were only used as exhibitions. When the first few were built there would be one car or motorcycle running around but some of the more 'dare devilish' exhibitors later added another machine mostly driven or ridden by an assistant. In early newspaper articles these were at times called pursuit races but with little or no room to pass i don't think any were of a competitve nature, hence the assistant.
     
  6. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    An interesting photo but i am unsure if the caption is correct. This is Sir Henry "Tim" Birkin in a Alfa Romeo leading W. Esplen in a Talbot at the Ards Tourist Trophy in 1932.
     

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  7. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    Another Birken? photo; Tim Birkin in a Blower Bentley leading Brian Lewis in a Talbot at the Brooklands 500 in 1930.
     

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  8. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    One more photo that is out of my area that I am unsure of the caption; Tazio Nuvolari posing in the cockpit of his Alfa Romeo with Marion Claire (Opera and Radio star) at the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup Race which he won.
     

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  9. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    Again I am unsure if this is a correct caption; Bugatti of Malcolm Campbell during a bit of an emergency at the 1928 Tourist Trophy Race. (Malcolm is behind the guy in the light colored coat and he has a fire extinguisher in his hand trying to quell the flames).
     

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  10. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,396

    gnichols
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    from Tampa, FL

    Interesting photo... I'm wondering if running only one fender was just fashionable? Or was his right front fender the only one that remained at this point in the race? Gary

    [​IMG]
     
  11. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    ...
     

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  12. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
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    The reason that the Brighton Beach track turned to automobile racing had absolutely nothing to do with the track surface, but rather that betting on horse racing was made illegal in New York State. These anti-betting laws were not repealed until 1913, much too late to save a number of New York City tracks from closure during this time, including Sheepshead Bay, Brighton Beach, and Gravesend, among others.

    In 1897, there were just over 300 horse racing tracks (official count was 314) in operation in the US, but in 1908 there were only 25 still operating. Among those states outlawing gambling at race tracks were New York and California, along with Michigan, Illinois, Texas and the District of Columbia among a number of others.

    Prior to laws passed in 1908 and 1910, "oral betting" was allowed at NY tracks under earlier laws restricting betting. However, even these laws had the effect of reducing horse and harness (trotting or driving) racing activities, reducing racing seasons and keeping patrons away. Although horse racing obviously did not die out in New York, races still being held despite the lack of any betting, it was dealt a severe blow.

    Keep in mind that there was a similar situation in California, many tracks either closing or running greatly reduced schedules due to the anti-gambling legislation of the time.

    Once again, the relationship between horse (and harness) racing and automobile racing in the early decades of the 20th Century is a bit more complex -- and convoluted -- than most assume it to be.

    Also keep in mind that "The Good Roads" lobby that campaigned the various state governments, as well as Washington, of course, and which was supported by the AAA and the ACA and the other automobile clubs, began to have some success by the end of the first decade, one factor in the increase of the number of road races at that time.

    There were a number of factors, not necessarily in synch with one another, at work during this period as the development of American automobile racing stumbled along trying to compete with the other sports of the day.
     
  13. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,244

    twin6
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    from Vermont

    I have it on pretty good authority this is a well known and correctly captioned photo. The T43 TT cars were experimenting with a rubber bladder gas tank, a design that didn't catch on (sorry, couldn't resist).
     
  14. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Yep - as twin6 says, the Campbell picture is well-known. There are quite a few others of the same incident, since it was spectacular to say the least. By the time the fire was extinguished, the car was a complete wreck. It wasn't insured either ...

    The 1932 TT picture was taken at Quarry Corner, a standard photo spot at Ards because the cars were slowing for the bend. Bill Esplen is driving a Talbot 90. Picking up on the "one fender" comment, the TT regulations for 1932 permitted removal of normal "touring" equipment - note that Esplen's car has none! I'm not sure why Birkin only has one though - perhaps his Alfa had a habit of throwing stones or spray inboard rather than away?

    The Talbot on the Brooklands banking in 1930 is a single-seater conversion of a Talbot 90. In the 1930 '500' Brian Lewis shared this car with Earl Howe - they won their class, finishing third overall on distance covered and fourth on handicap.

    I like the one of Tazio - he appears to be wearing the same jacket as in one of the photos on Howard Kroplick's site: taken on the same day?
     
  15. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
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    from Australia

    Some more Birken photos. Apologies for the bad qaulity.

    First - Finishing 10th in a Maserati at the 1931 German GP and about to pass the ill handling Buick of Red Shafer.

    Second - I believe he is driving the #46 Bentley at Brooklands in 1932. I can't name the other driver's at this time.

    The last photo is from the 1932 TT @ Ards-Belfast. The two Riley's of George Eyston {2nd} and Victor Gillow {DNF}. Interestingly, this is at the same corner as the photo in TH's post.
     

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  16. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    Vitesse....Thanks again for the background info, I am well aware of all of the foreign contests and some of the players but there is never enough time to learn it all. T-H
     
  17. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Kurtis: your second picture is the final of the 1932 Empire Trophy on April 30th 1932. #47 is John Cobb in the V12 Delage, #46 Birkin, #44 George Eyston's Panhard and #42 Jack Dunfee's Speed Six Bentley. If you look carefully, you can see another driver and the top of his car behind Eyston. Almost certainly Earl Howe in his Delage 15S8, looking at the helmet. Not visible for some reason is the other starter, Henken Widengren with his OM.
     
  18. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
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    The Coney Island Jockey Club had two tracks to choose from and persevered with Sheepshead until 1915.
    Another 1909 article on the motordrome conversion
     
  19. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I don't have any books or other info to go by in regards to the racing that took place in Britain so i'm somewhat confused about some of the events, namely this particular race.
    My question is, why are Widengren's OM and the Delage 15S8, i assume both being of 1.5 liter capacity, racing against the larger displacement cars?
    Also, is the Delage the ex. Rene Thomas mount or is it the car brought into the country in 1924 {or somewhere around there}?
     
  20. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    I have posted the first photo before, it was supposed to have been taken at Jacksonville, Fla. were there were also races on the beach.

    The second photo just surfaced of the same car with a different number on it at what appears to be a track somewhere. Parked right next to it is a Model T Ford racer, so changes are it was a minor race of some form.

    Based on this second photo, can anyone identify the car?
     

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  21. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    The 1932 Empire Trophy was a peculiar event - in both senses of the word. For a start, it was a scratch race - very unusual at Brooklands. There were two heats, also run off scratch rather than handicaps. The original plan was for four heats, with the leading four in each going forward to the final. Sadly, an already poor entry was further reduced by withdrawals and the 750cc, 1100cc and 2000cc classes were run off together, with just 8 cars taking the flag. Howe won that from Widengren, with Bill Humphreys' 1100cc Amilcar and the Earl of March's "Dutch Clog" Austin 7 the only other finishers.

    The over 2000cc heat was won by Eyston from Dunfee, Cobb and Birkin, all of whom lined up for the final with Howe and Widengren. I've never seen an explanation of why Humphreys and the Earl of March didn't run in the final. Birkin's Bentley cracked its cylinder head and retired but the story of the race was a duel between Cobb and Eyston, who crossed the line almost together. Eyston, initially reluctant but persuaded by friends, protested Cobb for blocking: the Stewards then awarded the race to Eyston, but this decision was reversed on appeal.

    There were subsidiary trophies for the heats: the India Trophy, won by Howe, and the Australia Trophy, won by Eyston. Confusingly, there was also a motorcycle race at the meeting, for which the New Zealand Trophy was awarded!

    The Delage is indeed the ex-René Thomas 10.7 litre V12 LSR car, later driven by Oliver Bertram and Kay Petre.

    http://www.dlg.speedfreaks.org/archive/gen/1932.html#empire
     
  22. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,396

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    I got to thinking about this again later... perhaps the riding mechanic wasn't all that amused by not having some debris protection and insisted the fender on that side of the car be retained? Gary
     
  23. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Can anyone identify this driver and his mechanic, or the grandstand in background?
     

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  24. QCMC
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 7

    QCMC
    Member

    Here is one that may be of interest to you people who like the early races. The Point Breeze Race track in Philadelphia was a one mile dirt track that had a large grandstand plus a good sized hotel. The races ran from 1906 to about 1912. The program for the July 29, 1911 event states that it is the "Fifth Annual Track Meet". The later races were run under the rules and sanction of the relatively new AAA Contest Board, of which my grandfather was a member. There are some additional pictures that can be posted.
     

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  25. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,244

    twin6
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    from Vermont

    Welcome aboard, QCMC, and thank you for sharing this (and more, perhaps).
     
  26. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,941

    The37Kid
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    Welcome to the HAMB QCMC! Look forward to more photos. This is a photo of Oldfield in the Blitzen Benz at Point Breeze, the timing tower in the infield was one of the nicest looking ones IMO.
     

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  27. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,941

    The37Kid
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    QCMC === Quaker City Motor Club?
     
  28. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,722

    noboD
    Member

    Welcome QCMC! Motorcycle Club?
     
  29. QCMC
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 7

    QCMC
    Member

    The37Kid, you are a hard one to fool! My grandfather was president of this organization in 1908.
     
  30. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,941

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've got some scrapbooks from that era put together by a young H.D.Carpenter, he went on to own the 1919 Ira Vail INDY Hudson along with the 122 MILLER that Vail ran at INDY in 1924-25. Philadelphia must have been a great place to watch racing in the 1920's. :)
     

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