History Auto racing 1894-1942

A few More pictures

 

This car is really cool, and the condition is amazing. I am not going to restore it , going to leave it original.

Good decision....To many cars have been ruined just so the owner could have a shiny perfect car. Conserve it and leave it just the way it is.

 

I would suggest that the use of the word "mess" is more a subjective opinion based upon anachronistic thoughts and opinions than a completely accurate portrayal of the contemporary automobile racing scene. That there were issues and difficulties that existed is quite true, but it must also be kept in mind that during the second decade of the 20th Century the sport scene in general was very fluid and dynamic. During this period you will find that baseball, horse racing, football, boxing, and a number of other sports were all experiencing significant challenges of varying kinds and some level of turmoil or stress as a result.

When one takes a step back, it becomes clear that several sources have influenced and shaped subsequent opinion, for better or worse, of automobile racing in the early 20th Century. Helck being an example of the former and Catlin, generally, of the latter. There is also the long-standing problem that few scholars and historians, even those studying automotive issues, have turned their attention to the overall automobile racing scene and not just the automobiles and some of the personalities that were a part of all this.

While it is fortunate that much is being done in recent years to provide a better assessment of these years, as is the case with such things, it is slow -- even plodding -- going. The answers are still fewer than our questions in this endeavor.

Looking at the other end of the time span, only in very recent years have scholars even begun to seriously examine certain aspects of American automobile racing in the decade prior to the US entry into WW2. That the folklore, legends, and mythology that surrounds stock car racing and its "origins," time and again credited to the moonshiners of the Southern Appalachians, is only now being seriously challenged seems to suggest that the inmates have long been in charge of this portion of history and are very reluctant to see this mythology exposed for what it is -- myth.

Perhaps the moonshiner/stock car myth will finally bite the dust in a few years. The issue is not that those either hauling or producing illegal liquor were not involved in stock car racing, rather it is their role, there being much to suggest that it was less on the driving and promotion side and much more concerned the money-laundering aspects that such an activity presented. I have long thought that to swallow the moonshiners as being the originators of stock car racing, that you had to be about as "smart" as a box of rocks. There certainly seem to be many boxes of rocks out there.

Since it seems obligatory to post some sort of eye candy, generally without any attribution, much less any rhyme or reason, here is the Kilpatrick Hotchkiss that participated in the 1908 Jamaica time trials (Motor, July 1908, pg. 395).

 

I found this photo of the Grey Wolf at Daytona but could not find it here on the thread in the past. I posted it as it gives a nice clear view of its construction.

 

I have seen these photos scattered here and there but found their origin and this interesting story about......Nina Vitagliano and the Speederettes. The tragic story of an Italian-born American race driver at velocetoday.com, follow the link below.

http://www.velocetoday.com/people/people_39.php

 

With great florish and eloquence thou doth wax

 

Seems to me one misses much when 'Bottle fed'

Or perhaps not...........

 

Literacy is a great burden that some must bear in this day and age.

 

Capps

Is that a Leo Gorcey quote?

 

Hey boss, is that thing related to this thing? Is it this thing?

 

Nice car deuce354! Looks like that front axle is a narrowed Franklin.

 

No, it was, I would suggest, courtesy another sage of the Bowery, Huntz Hall, hence the reason for the confusion on your part.

Then again, alas, it may have been uttered by Dylan Thomas at the White Horse Tavern in the days not long before his not going gentle into that good night.

I would offer an opinion regarding the use of that oft abused, misused, and misunderstood word, "history," which appears in the title of this thread, but it would serve no purpose, good or otherwise, given the raison d'etre for this collection of postings.

As I sit here, I can see my copy of Anti-intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter on one the bookshelves in my office. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. (Alphonse Karr, Les Guêpes, 1849)

But, I digress....

The obligatory photograph is from The Horseless Age, 17 March 1915, page 362 It is the line up of grid prior to the start of the Vanderbilt Cup race. It shows the Peugeot of Resta, the Mercedes of De Palma, and the Chevrolet of Durant on the front row.

 

I picked the option of Mr Gorcey so as to offend you less, but if you wish to think of your comments in the style and content of Mr Hall we all here can accept that easily

I am not confused only don't understand why you come here and post the same general self-centered garbage knowing it will change no one's mind here.

 

Ah, but it is at least literate garbage.

As for your comment, perhaps Emerson (the American philosopher and writer, not the radio company, Bluto, since I doubt you would know the difference) provides a fitting farewell: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...."

Farewell, little minds.

 

That's were your very wrong Crapps.

Throughout history people have tried to hide their rude argument and bulling as somehow literate. Your not the first, last or even the best.

You have added nothing to this thread for others enjoy or learn from.

I wonder at the pitiful existence you have. Must burden aways being right.

I never claimed my mind is large. Only you have claimed that for yourself here. And over and over trying to impress us "little minds"

 

Oh come on Bluto

Just ignore him

He just wants attention.

Herb Kephart (self proclaimed illiterate dufus)

 

Back to our regularly scheduled program.....

I found this photo labeled only Marquette, which was a high quality make that became a part of Buick. From the way it is set up it looks to be a fairly serious sprinter in the same vein as the Simplex Zip or the Fiat Cyclone. Maybe someone can enlighten us on its history?

 

A little off topic but I am hoping that maybe someone can ID this WWI Staff Car?. It is listed as being a Benz but with no other information. The radiator has a narrower look to it that the racing cars of 8-10 years earlier that we are familiar with. Regards it appears to be a very high quality automobile that I am sure someone can positively ID.

 

Welcome to the thread Deek.

Very nice midget you have. Keep us informed if any new information should arise.

 

TH-
Any idea what the smaller disk mounted outboard of the countershaft sprocket on the Marquette might be? Hard to see if it has any teeth, but it might be a quick ratio conversion for hillclimbs???

Another question- were the L head Mercers ever able to win any major race?

Herb Kephart

 

Possibly a Benz 30/60, the model used as the basis for the 1908 Prince Heinrich Trial cars.

 

Herb...... It in fact does have something there, I enlarged the photo but it is poor qualify. It also appears to be more there. I have never seen one on a chain drive car but I wonder if it could be a compensating sprocket?

I guess it could also be a way of setting the sprocket inward without a heavy dished hub??

As you noticed the small sprocket could be for hillclimbing or maybe a half mile track?

Did you notice the huge flywheel??

I am not aware of the standard L-Head winning any major races but I hope that Jim Dillion will tune in fill us in as he is good with Mercer racing history.

 

TH
No I didn't notice that man hole cover lurking in the shadows! Gulp!!

Your idea of a comp. sprocket makes more sense than mine. Although my idea might work, the chain would be horribly miss-aligned on one (or both) ratios.

I guess that with 6 1/2 pound rods rods a pound one way or the other won't matter?

<grin>

Herb

 

Kurtis that is Harry Stillman and his broken Marmon during the 1908 Vanderbilt Race. I didn't know this until yesterday when my prize arrived from Howard Kroplick for IDing a photo on this website. Great time to say "TAHNK YOU HOWARD!" the books are great!

 

That is the same setup that Sears high wheelers have, it is a differential of some sort. There must be a technical name for it, I'm good at remembering silly stuff like that.

 

Sorry I did not catch you idea the first time. If you are right maybe they could turn it over and put the small one on the inside if they wanted to use it and it would line up perfectly??

The heaviest rod was 26 grams more the the lightest and you could feel the out of balance. That is the kind of thing you find with a lot of these early cars.

 

If you are in need of a pit crew member, I can abandon my Bugatti friends.

 

Thanks Again.....Its Quite a car.....

 

All -
With the start of Speed Week, on the Bonneville Salt Flats, just 12 days away, I thought I would put up some vintage land speed images. For the record, this photo is an original, in my collection. It was found by me, with some other photos, at a yard sale in Salt Lake a few years ago. I believe it is a news service photo.

It is, of course, one of Utah's most famous citizens, Ab Jenkins. The information on the Pierce would indicate that this photo, staged in front of the Utah State Capitol building, was taken after Ab's first 1932 unofficial runs on the salt. I do not know who the other gentleman in the photo is.

I do not know the circumstances of the photo. Perhaps Jenkins is just leaving on a road trip, arranged by Pierce Arrow PR. I will leave it to others to shed some additional light on this.
Bob.