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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    Sorry Furby, too long ago for me to recall: I've been dredging up Sizaire stuff ever since we got ours in '91.
    The differential is a 3-speeder, ie no conventional gearbox. One crownwheel with three sets of pinions (plus reverse idler). I'll post an image of it later - bit pressed for time right now.:)
     
  2. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

  3. when i was a kid i got to ride in a few one cylinder racers, including a dedion coup'del auto car and a sizaire. the feeling of that one cylinder surging away up front is an experience never to forget. you are a very lucky guy.
     
  4. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    A great photo of the legend Cannonball Baker before setting out from Los Angeles to New York were he completed the trip in 11 days 7 hours and fifteen minutes. Interestingly he chose to use gas head lamps when the electric versions were available. Perhaps it was because early electrical systems were not very reliable.

    The following year he drove a Cadillac 8 roadster from Los Angeles to Times Square in seven days, eleven hours and fifty-two minutes while accompanied by an Indianapolis newspaper reporter. In 1926 he drove a loaded two-ton truck from New York to San Francisco in a record five days, seventeen hours and thirty minutes, and in 1928, he beat the 20th Century Limited train from New York to Chicago. Also in 1928, he competed in the Mount Washington Hillclimb Auto Race, and set a record time of 14:49.6 seconds, driving a Franklin.
     

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  5. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  6. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    No, but the photo is from Goodwood so that means it is probably a good car. I'm sure someone knows something about it.
     
  7. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  8. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Ralph DePalma in the 50 HP Simplex he drove in the first Indy 500 race which was in 1911. He started second and finished in sixth place in the race which was won by Harroun in the Marmon Wasp.

    The car is very similar to the Simplex Zip but appears to be the standard Simplex short chassis length of around 120 " with the engine set back approx. 10 "

    The third photo is a 50 HP cast iron piston, 5 3/4" x 6 3/4" tall. You might note the blueish looking scorch mark on the bottom left side. There are four marks on this piston which probably seized in the bore at some point. It weighs around 5-6 lbs.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  9. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Many thanks T-head! I had not seen these photos of De Palma before.

    That piston is about the size of a #10 can(gallon).
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  10. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia


    WOW.:eek: What a way to make an entrance.

    Welcome onelung.

    I'm assuming you have this information but if you don't, here's something you might enjoy.
    www.netguys.com.au/attachments/Media/Files/SIZAIRE%20NAUDIN%20Brochure%201910%20132.pdf

    I have always thought this was Georges Sizaire in the photo below.
    Finished 2nd place in the 1907 Coupe des Voiturettes @ Rambouillet. Correct me if i'm wrong.
     

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  11. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Buildy,

    Thanks for all the photo links . Great stuff.
     
  12. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    You are quite welcome Kurtis,glad you enjoyed the links. They have some really good photos over there.


    Here is the Locomobile engine from Old #16 on a test stand at the Bridgeport Conn. factory.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Photos of Old 16 at Pebble Beach a couple of years ago. A true Mona Lisa ..... I was lucky to be given a ride in it by Peter Helck when I was five..... You might say it was a life changing event. I was also fortunate to see it being exercised and running at close to full bore on a road in Goshen Conn. about 1965 when I was ten.

    As most of you may know The Henry Ford Museum has made the decision not to run it anymore. I have seen photos they took of the inside of the engine and it was a a very impressive sight to see the level that the Riker the engineer took things to.

    Do you have any more Locomobile photos Buildy?
     

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  14. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    I save anything I find on Old #16 and Locomobile. I`ll see if I have any I can post.
     
  15. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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  16. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    This is a photo I have of Peter and Jerry Helck with Joe Tracy behind the wheel. They were on the way to a VMCCA event just after WWII.
     

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  17. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Hold on a few minutes I`ll have one to post.
     
  18. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    Presenting Joe Tracy in the Locomobile.



    [​IMG]
     
  19. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

  20. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    A post card from my collection after the Race win.
     

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  21. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Tracy In the 1905 Vanderbilt Cup Race with the earlier car on the left.

    Mine own 1915 Locomobile Model 48 on the right.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  22. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Your Loco is a beauty.


    They really were running them pretty hard in the 1946 tape.


    1946 Glidden Tour-fenders on Old #16.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Great photo Buildy....... The fenders and road equipment were added by Joseph Sessions from Bristol CT. He ran a very advanced foundry at the time and made some of the castings for Locomobile. He ended up with the car a few years after it came back from a tour of the country after the big win and it was stored at Rikers farm for a while. Riker was the chief engineer for Locomobile. Sessions ended up with the car in the teens.

    He used to take it out once a year and run it and put it back in the special building he made for it. In the depression my Grandmother had divorced my grandfather as he wanted to go homestead in Canada and she worked for the Sessions as a maid. Mrs. Sessions wanted to adopt my father at the time as he was in his early teens and she wanted to send him to good schools as they were very well off........ I often wonder if she had, what may have happened....... There might have been a chance the car would be in my garage today.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  24. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    A preliminary sketch of mine by Peter Helck of the Locomobile and the Chadwick.
     

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  25. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  26. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Washington

    That Simplex piston on page 73 is pretty big, but how about these 1906 Christie cylinders. 7 3/8" bore and stroke !

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    What the Brits call a Big Banger.
     
  28. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    This'll give an overview of the diff/axle assembly ..
    [​IMG]
    But words may be necessary as well: the pinion shaft (carrying the three forward gears, all straight cut) is housed in what I refer to as a "carrier" which is a cast iron cage pivoted at the top by a shaft such that it can be swivelled transversely ("in and out" relative to the crown wheel), and also moved back and forth. These movements are controlled by a large "snail", or "cam de change de vitesse". Said cam is of spiral form, but has faces with lumps and bumps which control the in and out movement of the pinions. Fore and aft movement comes about as a result of the spiral form of the cam. The gear change lever simply moves in a quadrant, rotating the cam, so the process of changing from one gear to another goes something like .. 1) pinion shaft moves away from crown wheel, thus disengaging: 2) pinion moves forward or back to the appropriate position for the next gear desired: 3) pinion moves back in towards crown wheel an appropriate amount for re-engagement with that chosen gear.
    It sound b****y complicated, but, once used to it, it's surprisingly effective. Only downside is the horrendous unsprung weight involved in the back axle assembly. Lots of the dreaded 'side slip" on occasions, like wet or corrugated ("corduroy") roads.

    Here's the main pinion shaft with (overhung) reverse idler pinion: as you can see, the 1st gear pinion is double length to accommodate the reversing function.
    [​IMG]

    And here's the cam and carrier: the pin around which the carrier pivots is absent, but you can see the two points (nearest the camera) through which it passes.
    [​IMG]
     
  29. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    Hi Kurtis - I'm in absolute awe of the photos you've been able to post.. perhaps you have a giNORmous library?
    The net guys link - yes, that has been put up by a Gippslander who has one of the three Sizaires in Oz. Naturally, we are in (very) good contact.

    As to the other image you posted - the London agent for Sizaires was Charles Jarrot, and he had that vehicle (one of the three 100 x 240mm racers built) in England at the time your photo was taken. It was driven at Brooklands, Shelsley Walsh and on Saltburn Sands by one Arthur Bray. Whether that is Mr A. Bray in your image,I know not - the person at the wheel certainly looks very young.

    A couple of pertinent images..
    [​IMG]

    and
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  30. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    .. and I'd say you were pretty lucky to ride in a Sizaire, Furby - there are only three of 'em in the States now, and at the time you had your ride, there would have been only two: One was in the Harrah collection (Reno) for years and now resides in San Diego and the last (the third one) only arrived in the U.S. in 1996.:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010

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