After seeing the photo that Bluto sent in of the little Packard I thought I would post this one. It must have been to promote the short lived Fulford-Miami board track. This 1-1/4 mile board track was designed by Ray Harroun and built for developer Carl Fisher in 1925. The AAA sanctioned race with a $30,000 purse was run before 20,000 people on February 22, 1926. It was the world's fastest wooden track due to the 50 degree banked turns. It was the first and only race their as it was destroyed by a hurricane in Sept. Photos below.
First photo of the Fulford-Miami track after completion. Second photo, February 22, 1926. Peter DePaulo driving a Duesenberg leads Harry Hartz in Miller as they head for the checker. DePaulo won the event and Hartz finished second. Third photo Hartz in a Miller which I believe were all 122's Forth photo Earl Devore in his Miller Fifth photo Ralph Hepburn and Miller with starter Barney Oldfield
Great Photographs thanks to a lead from Kurtis of the famous Giants Despair Hill Climb from 1907 on May 30th. The first photo, Jimmie Ryall in winning the 60 HP Matheson. with a time of 1 min 59 sec. The Matheson in my opinion was the ultimate American car built at the time and was manufactured in Wilkes-Barre, PA. Second photo 5" x 6" SOHC Matheson 60 HP four. Third photo is of the other Pennsylvania super car of the time the Chadwick. Built and designed by Lee Chadwick in Pottstown PA. with Wille Haupt at the wheel. The Chadwick was a big 6-cyl. t-head with copper water jackets applied over the cast iron cylinders. In 1908 they gave the Locomobile a run for the money in the Vanderbilt Cup race. They fell out of the race with what they called at the time sabotage of their magneto. Regardless it was very well built and engineered big double chain drive six that did well in racing. Chadwick was one of the first to develop a supercharger that was driven off of the flywheel.
Here's a new pic i found of my great-great grandfather, Lee Frayer, and the car he built for the 1906 Vanderbilt.... He's on the right. - scott noteboom
Hello Scott, I would be interested in everything you can teach us about Lee Frayer. I would imagine you are familiar with this site? http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/
Yeah, i've checked out the site more than a couple times Actually, i'll be writing an article about Lee's history for a future magazine article that'll be published. Been gathering as much info as i can find for a couple years now... He also raced in the first Indy. -scott noteboom
Ian Fleming has a lot to answer for. Zborowski's cars were not called "Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang" - just "Chitty-Bang-Bang", with only one "Chitty". The origin of the name is obscure, but is believed to be a reference to a now lost ribald song performed in Royal Flying Corps messes during WW1, with "chitty" referring to a p*** authorising leave and "bang-bang" having nothing to do with guns ... well, I'm sure you can figure that out! According to Zborowski's friend Clive Gallop, Louis originally wanted to call it "Cascara Sagrada", presumably due to the fact that driving it would scare the cr*p out of you!
Scott, GREAT photo! I have an old photo of the Frayer-Miller that was in the Harrah Collection when it was at a meet her in town back in the late 1950's. Is it the sole survivor
Bob, With the arrival of new members to the HAMB and also the many who have been around here for sometime this thread has gained a little momentum. Also, i have noticed there are some small groups that have broken off into their own discussions which is a good thing. The dialogue between Michael Ferner and yourself is very welcome. The Miller dynasty has been one of much interest to me but being slightly inknowledgeable about American racing, having recently been caught out by Mr.Capps and on occ***ion by Jim, {he would be unhappy with Mr.Dillon} i hope to learn more about these wonderful cars that have such a rich history. I have also read the histories of the Miller cars written by Michael and i personally think he is THE authority on this matter. Please keep this subject ongoing. As a sidenote i have had this picture for a short time but i never knew who the driver was and i wasn't sure what car it was but studying the Miller cars i believe it is the Leach-Miller with Ira Vail. If i'm wrong, well, you'll understand why.
Kurtis for a guy that feels his knowledge is lacking you do pretty well. All of us appreciate your knowledge. I appreciate all of the posting here and it has educated me for sure, as my knowledge of the Golden Age, or whatever one wants to call it, is pretty much limited to the 300 inch era with a smattering of semi-useless info on the other eras. I originally set out to learn more about Packard racing in the teens and my research expanded a bit I guess. I have never tried to call you out or any others intentionally but if we are to have any credibility we should try and get the history straight. If it is something controversial I will try and give a cite so others can follow up on it and if I don't I would be glad to furnish the cite to anyone that asks. If I can rattle off some of that semi-useless info to try and get it right it is not meant to be calling anyone out but I suppose trying to get it right. So much of what has been written has been wrong so it is refreshing to see guys that take an interest in this stuff. I have been wrong myself more than once (just ask my wife). Sometimes when I find I was wrong it is not all bad since it puts me on another quest. As to the history of Miller by Michael if there is a source other than the great info he has supplied here I would appreciate being directed to it. I know of the compilation of records etc by Michael which I am sure took him a few hours here and there. Neat picture of the Miller. Keep up the good work.-Jim
I don't know if was coincidental or not but the recent post by yonahrr showing the Chitty car of Zborowski, the Marmon Wasp and the Bordino FIAT S74 came just at the beginning of a discussion regarding the age old argument of recreations and over restorations. I personally don't have a problem with either. But getting back to the photos, all of the Chitty cars have been altered at some point and as we all know, the Wasp is a restoration. The FIAT disappeared from the scene just before the Great War, having been s****ped by the company but there has been some news of a recreation of the car. Apparently the only genuine part being the ch***is that was found in Australia. The engine is a museum piece and with enough drawings at hand the owner will attempt to recreate each part as an original. Now, i can't think any such individual with an interest in the art of the automobile would be against a recreation like this. This machine needs to be done. Just which car he is building is anyone's guess. * I know i made the rule of no Landspeed record cars but the 'Beast of Turin' has to be included.* Arthur Duray @ Ostende. 1913. Felice Nazzaro & Antonio ***nano. 1911.
Jim, I have never felt offended by your corrections, if anything i welcome them and i'm in agreeance with you that credibility is very important. I can't thank you enough for you contribution to this thread. You were one of the first i thought of before i decided to start this thread. Thanks again. Kurtis.
It is great to look at all of the expensive and exotic race cars but it is also fun to look a the everymans race cars also. I love this set of photos which tell you what came first......the race car. Look at the small concrete block house, what looks like Grampa and a chicken in the first photo and the outhouse and chickens in the second. Priceless.
National 1912 Indianapolis 500 winner on display at the 1914 Indianapolis 500 Already considered historically significant only two yrs. after the victory. Marmon Wasp was part of the same display in 1914 The National running demonstration laps at Indy in 1936.
Photos from the Savannah Georgia Area. Look at the L29 front drive Cord and late twenties Packard in the second photo. The last photo was labeled Winfield Special probably because of the speed equipment on it.
I did read about the Mors 'Paris-Vienna' car being converted but looking at the photo it looks very similar to the record car he drove to beat Vanderbilt's record. Well the wheelbase does. Thanks for the pic Brian.
Buildy you could be correct on that. I am not sure where the picture of it running a machine is and the date. The picture though does show the #8 on the gas tank running the machine. It may be the National factory so they may have put it back together or could have painted #8 on one of the other cars. Everyone wants an Indy winner including the National company even in 1914, they had to have been proud so it does not surprise me that the car made appearances to promote the product. As to how good a car the National was, at Meadowbrook this past summer I felt the most impressive car far and away (nothing even came close in my opinion-cl***ic or antique) was that big gray National touring of the same era-unbelievable. I am not sure if I have a picture will look see. I have always been a fan of Bowden's Flying Dutchman. Cool car although if my memory serves the powers to be got their ******* in a twist and disqualified it for whatever the flavor of the day complaint happened to be-Jim
Twin6 sent me this just yesterday. I ***umed it is the IMS National but #11? that Buildy just sent in photos of, looks like they have done a little work on it recently and may have had it out. Or it may not be the Speedways car as there is another one that was at Goodwood in 2005 when I was there. It was owned then by a father and son team from the UK.
I agree. ...and if there ever was an automotive laxative that car would be it. Have a read of this article, it's the ****!
T-Head,I don`t think that National is the one from the IMS collection. The IMS car has exhaust on the other side. Different car. There were 3 National racers at the 1912 Indianapolis 500. International 500 Mile Sweepstakes Indianapolis Motor Speedway 2.5 Mile Brick Oval 200 Laps/500 Miles May 30, 1912 Finish, Start, Driver Car # Sponsor/Name, Ch***is, Engine, Laps, Status 1 7 Joe Dawson 8 National National National 200 6:21:06 78.719 9 8 Howdy Wilcox 9 National National National 200 7:11:30.4 69.524 22 23 David Bruce-Brown 29 National National National 25 Broken valve Would love to learn more about the Other Nationals such as this one T-Head has posted if anyone has any information!
This is the 1906 National that Jim was thinking of. I have also seen it and have known about it for years. It has quite the history behind it. Even though it is not a race car it is very interesting and worth reading about. http://www.jwrautomuseum.com/vehicles/1906nme7pt.html
I always wondered what the story was behind this photo. Thanks Buildy. www.chuckstoyland.com has lots of National Motor Vehicle Co. info
Here is a photo of the IMS car at Amelia Island recently. The photos of the #11 car were taken at the AACA Museum in 2007 so it may not be the one I was thinking about that was in the UK unless it is back. The gray speedster belongs to Fred Simeone and is in his museum in Philly. I know of possibly two more race cars and also know of two other speedsters that survive. www.SimeoneMuseum.org
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