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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    After all of the recent Mercedes and Benz photos I found a classic. David Bruce-Brown is on his way to winning the 1910 American Grand Prize race on November 12, 1910, in Savannah, Georgia.
     

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  2. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    That's not at all surprising when he spent little more than the first 3 of his 72 years in Australia.
     
  3. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I believe it is a Darracq Bollee 20hp driven by 'Lefevre' to 16th place in the 1900 Coupes de Voiturettes on the 11th of March. I could also be wrong as Lefevre wore the #68 in this race but there is a chance it could be a typo by the author. No other Bollee cars before 1900 were listed as #66.

    The car was actually designed and built by Leon Bollee Automobiles in 1899 and his first four wheel independent suspension design with a 20hp petrol engine. Among those licensed to build this model was Alexandre Darracq and he later bought the design from Bollee for an estimated 250,000 Francs in 1900 or 1901.

    Leon Bollee is credited as being the first to build a Voiturette, designing his 650cc 3hp tricycle between 1895-1898. He is also the son of Amedee Bollee who was an early pioneer of steam automobiles in France.

    Another photo of the 1899 Bollee 20hp built before the design was sold to Darracq.
    "Avis" @ 1899 le Tour de France.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Kurtis,

    Any idea what those shafts on the front end are(steering arms?),and what is the box like thing in the center?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Found this cool ad of the Blitzen Benz from 1911.

    [​IMG]
     
    96HP likes this.
  6. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    That is correct. This steering principle was based on his father's earlier design from the late 1870's when he adopted it to his steam vehicle. It's basically another version of the "Ackerman" design very similar to the way a Morgan 3 wheeler steers, if that gives you some idea.

    Below is a drawing of the innards of the box you referred to. This is from the Amedee Bollee designed omnibus and is very similar to the 1899 Leon Bollee.
     

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  7. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Thank you very,much!
     
  8. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks Vitesse.

    My knowledge of Brooklands and most of British motoring is very much nonexistent.
    Here is another photo i only know by the description. Frank Newton i have heard of and the car is obviously another Napier but that's as far i get. I'm assuming it's from the first meeting but....
     

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  9. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 827

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Nope - it's actually an Amédée Bollée fils, driven by Étienne Giraud on the 1899 Tour de France. The number is #6, not #66, it just looks that way because of the design of the car.

    There were three car manufactureres by the name Bollée: Amédée Bollée père, Amédée Bollée fils and Léon Bollée. Amédée père (sen.) was the father, who built several steam automobiles in Le Mans in the late 19th century, one taking part in the 1895 Paris - Bordeaux - Paris race, the first "real" automobile racing contest in history.

    His sons Amédée fils (jun.) and Léon built gasoline cars around the turn of the century, but the younger Léon almost exclusively built his unique (for the time) tri-cars and named them "Voiturette". Later, that name was used for very small quadricycles built by other companies as well, but for a time he had the name patented and other manufacturers had to call their little cars "Voiturelle", "Voiturine" or whatever - all those words meaning the same thing, a diminutive of "voiture" = car.

    This 1899 Amédée Bollée fils car was a 20 hp 6.3 litre 4-cylinder, and the design was also licensed to De Dietrich, back then still a German manufacturer. Later, De Dietrich began manufacturing its own designs, and for a time employed a young designer by the name of Ettore Bugatti. The first Darracq was indeed a Léon Bollée design, but a 6hp 1.6-litre 2-cylinder - basically, a doubled-up Léon Bollée. Only a few were built, before Darracq commenced building original cars.
     
  10. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 827

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    The Junior Special engine was not a Miller product, instead it was built by a few racing enthusiasts from KCMO, led by Billy Brown and Riley Brett. Cotton Henning and Tony Gulotta were also involved in minor roles. Later, these engines were fitted in two custom-made cars, and the evidence is those cars were built in the Miller shop.
     
  11. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    This picture appears in Boddy's Brooklands history, but captioned as Henry C Tryon at the wheel rather than Newton. As Newton had a moustache, I'm inclined to agree with that. However, the car is the Napier T23 c/n 4002, usually driven by Newton.

    Looking at the spectators' hats, I'd say the picture is taken at either the July 20th or August 5th meetings, but AFAIK there is no specific record of Tryon driving 4002 at either. Newton drove it at the August meeting, winning the International Plate. However, both Tryon and Newton competed in a later event, the Prix de France - Tryon was said to be in a T21 and Newton the T23: perhaps that's the wrong way round?

    Tryon did run the T23 in some record attempts in October and November, but the Panama hats and the crowd in the background would indicate that the August Bank Holiday meeting is most likely.
     
  12. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Louis Mooers - PEERLESS 17 Liter @ 1903 GORDON BENNETT TROPHY. Athy, Nth Ireland. DNF. 1st lap - tyres.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  13. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

  14. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

  15. Rapid Robert
    Joined: Nov 7, 2009
    Posts: 61

    Rapid Robert
    Member

    kurtis -
    Love the Green Dragon images. Does anyone have blueprints or can post of PM me accurate stats for the above pictured vehicle - WB, track, tire size F & R, etc. Might make an interesting sketch.
    Bob.
     
  16. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Rapid Robert,

    There is a replica of IIRC of the 1904 Peerless Green Dragon. I don`t know how accurate it is.
    Maybe someone here knows the owner and can get some measurments ?
     
  17. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

  18. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,955

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That car has been restored about 4-5 times since the late 1970's, looks nothing like the car in the photos, but it is a Peerless. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    So much for that idea,then.
     
  20. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Here is one I found today for Jim and T-Head

    [​IMG]
     
  21. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,723

    noboD
    Member

    What's the theory of mixing wood spoke and disc wheels? I read an explanation written years ago why wood wheels were better. Just wondering why the mixture?
     
  22. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,307

    jimdillon
    Member


    Thanks Buildy-Jim
     
  23. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    You are quite welcome Jim.
     
  24. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    Part of the 'Alfa 100 years' display at the Historic Motorsports show this past weekend.



    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]


    .

    .
     
  25. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks Keith. Surely you have more.

    Here's some earlier ALFA with some very famous individuals.

    1932 Coppa Acerbo.
    1st pic: before the start - Pietro Ghersi - Piero Taruffi - Tazio Nuvolari - and to his left is Enzo Ferrari - Antonio Brivio - Guilo Ramponi - Carlo Ongaro.
    2nd pic: after winning the race a photo with Italian dictator Benito Mussolini's two sons, Vittorio in the cockpit and Bruno to the right of Nuvolari.
    3rd pic: With Mussolini behind the wheel with Nuvolari and mechanic Renato Balestrero behind the car.
     

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  26. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member



    Kurtis,

    Still downloading but here's one more


    [​IMG]


    .


    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  27. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Kurtis nice pics, last one the duece is congratulating then on winning the 1932 european championship in his garden. I notice you wrote ALFA, Mr Romeo had been in control for a long time by then, the only known G1 ALFA in existence is owned by the distributor there.
    1921 Alfa Romeo team from left Merosi G1 Ferrari 20-30 Ascari GP Sivocci 20-30 Campari 40-60
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  28. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    1932 dream team approaching the Italian GP grid, Nuvolari at the wheel and designer Vittorio Jano at right. The sight and sound must have been quite intimidating to the opposition :eek:
     

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  29. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Ugo Sivocci testing Alfa Romeo P1 at Monza August 1923
     

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  30. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    Can anyone help explain why "Australia" appears on the door in the background to this shot from the web?
    I think it was during the 1937 Vanderbilt Cup - note the swastika... and was this the only time other than the '37 AVUS event that it (the swastika) appeared? Factual corrections welcome.:)
    [​IMG]
     

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