I wonder if that is the same GP car that was up here about 30 years ago? It was a rolling car at that time but just a pile of Bugatti bits now.
Yeah Jim, There is some nice stuff around here...Southern Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay had some activity going on in that triple border...A bunch of people from European stock crazy about cars and velocity...I will post later some more pics and stories...
Jim,I don't believe Rick actually owned that Peugeot - it was always my belief that he was driving for Kaufman, like Mulford before him, but I may be mistaken, of course. You are right in that he painted it white, and "unloaded" it on Harry Miller in January - and Dario Resta appeared seven weeks later with a white Peugeot, fresh out of Miller's shop, a coincidence? In fact, white is a pretty unusual colour for a Peugeot - remember, it was the colours of The Boche, the enemy, and I don't recall another white Peugeot until the Le Mans racers of the nineties! Also, what else could the "tremendous car" comment stand for, if not the success of Resta in the Vanderbilt and Grand Prize??? The only other success of a 1913 Peugeot after that incident was achieved by Burman, and that was less spectacular (i.e. wins at Ascot and Oklahoma, 6th at Indy etc.: hardly "tremendous" stuff) - also, we know it was a different car: it ran in the same events as Rickenbacher's, and was still with Miller during the time of Resta's victories. And I still maintain that there were ever only two of these cars in the US*, and we know from pictures and reports that all three of them (Rickenbacher, Resta and Burman) drove this type in the races in question, and that leaves no alternative. * I am sure I have seen references to works production numbers for all pre-WW1 racing Peugeots, although I can't lay my hands on them right now (I believe they were in Edmond Cohin's "L'Historique de la Course Automobile"), and I clearly recall that there were only three of these cars built, and one has a continuous history in England for another decade or so. Our latest member John Glenn Printz has identified this error in "The Miller Dynasty", and stated that the picture of the car with Arnett and Offenhauser in it was from early 1917 - maybe he can come to the rescue with a proper ****ysis, but to me it made perfect sense. As for Harvey at Elgin in 1919, note that I said "quite possibly" - I would only go so far as to say it's a 1913 Peugeot, but whether it was the Goux/Burman car or the Boillot/Mulford/Rickenbacher/Resta one I can't possibly comment on without further research.
Well, that looks a bit like Ralph de Palma behind the wheel, and in actual compe***ion they would have had to use hard shells on their melons, so yes!
Michael that picture is from an article written in The Automobile 7/6/16 by WF Bradley no less en***led Aluminum Engines Coming in France (sub***led Peugeot and Panhard make aluminum engines without cylinder liners). The thing that throws me is the date since a few bullets might have been flying about at the time. In describing the engine.."this has neither cylinder liners nor separate valve seats. In its general design it is exactly similar to the racing engines used by Peugeot on the 1914 Grand Prix cars now in America...weight 63lbs..cylinders are approximately 2.7 bore...same casting in iron weighs 170lbs. These engines area high-efficiency type running normally at 2800 rpm and several of them are in service." The several of them are in service is also ??? Like where as staff cars or did they use these in planes? If they were used in racing service I am not sure it could be anywhere other than US but that is a big question mark for sure. It kind of threw me. I also have numerous articles written on the aluminum engines being cast in the US at the same time but nothing on Peugeots but then again someone could have done it without me knowing about it. As to the Peugeot stuff, I have never really researched the topic at length. I simply have jotted down a note here and there while on the trail of some other mystery I was tracking. My problem though is I have to live in my skin and once I find a reference from press reports or accounts of the day, I am pretty stubborn changing my mind until I find definitive proof to the contrary. I suppose all of this Peugeot stuff will pique my interest a bit more while pouring over research material. Conclusions are still a bit on the horizon for me on this stuff. Interesting nevertheless.-Jim
Michael, if you research the Harvey mount in 1919, see Motor Age 8/21/19, p10 and 8/28/19 p8 where they describe the car as the Burman's...Paul Harvey, a Chicago youngster who with Burman's help built the Ford Special which he piloted to a win in the Amateur Ford Race on Chicago Speedway...his car is the old Peugeot which had been driven by Bob Burman...3 5/8 x 7 1/4 299 Dual cam". I have a photo of the Ford special they refer to and it does resemble the Peugeot to an extent with similar pinstriping.-Jim
First image is a drawing of the 1913 Peugeot valve gear by James Toensing. The second image a drawing of the WWI Peugeot airplane engine with two 1914 racing blocks. The Peugeot engine is probably the most copied ever. Many of the cars we drive today have the same type of valve gear but changed to bucket type lifters. The third image is a drawing of the 1914 TT Sunbeam valve gear. This is basically what everyone in racing at the time did, they copied Peugeot.
I do not believe I have ever seen an image of this car before. Just judging by the radiator and hood it looks like a White but I do not believe they have much of a racing history other than the earlier steamers. The drivers coveralls maybe also have White printed on the front of them. Is this just another fairgrounds special of something better? It looks to be very well done which leads me to believe one of you out there may know something about this attractive racer.
Excellent pics Jim. I've had a quick peek of a friends copy of Borgeson's book some time ago and i do remember a reference to a couple of engine blocks at the Miller shop for Burman, one of which he never saw. Both were cast with his name but the size of the letters were different. I'm ***uming the pic above is showing the engine he used. I wonder if the block Burman never saw was also an interchangeable liner engine. Without any credible books or other information to go by except for what has been written on these pages by yourself and Michael and what i have found on TNF, this fascinating saga, as well as the Resta car, is all very much confusing to me. Too many twists and turns but interesting nonetheless. I hope you guys can continue in this discussion.
Must be one hell of a special, as that looks loads bigger than the typical white gas cars (keep thinking model 30). But of course being White, there was a complete truck arm from which to draw all manner of heavy bits. What a great looking car though. Here is a '12 model 30 for comparison.
a "bug" today. (know nothing of the car): http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z15143/Buick-Bug-Racer-Special-60.aspx
While not an Easter egg like Kurtis's post this is appropriate for the day. Here in Northern New England we are having our first warm weather and I opened the shop doors yesterday and let the wood stove go out. Today we have mosquitos buzzing us already which made me think of this photo. It is captioned Louis Coatalen at Brooklands in the Sunbeam Nautilus in 1910. Additional fairings around the ****pit and extreme "tail" have been removed in this photo.
I have to find a photo I posted a while back of what I think is this car with a conventional radiator and hood added in the late teens.
Kurtis, the motor that you refer to as the motor Burman never saw finished is below. This is what Borgeson alleged, that may be the case but I am not sure. I do not believe it had interchangeable liners as the engine with the large script. You are correct that some of the Burman, Miller and Peugeot history is and may very well continue to be confusing. We may have some fun trying to solve some of the mysteries though. As to the Buick Bug, I remember it from some time back when it seemed to have more patina. It may be my imagination but I thought it looked better although I still like the car as it sits now. Kind of cool to think of the great racers to have driven the car. T-Head thanks for the stuff on Peugeot-will have to file it away for some time in the future when I can put some good use to it. Somewhere I ran across a pic of a White racer although God only knows where. Kurtis and all of you guys that celebrate Easter have a Happy Easter as well-Jim
There's a very strong resemblance 37Kid, is the demise of the other one a known thing? I notice the ch***is looks bent today and on Chevrolet's car in the period pic, historical damage? It looks to be in good con in 1946. Here's a restoration story from a couple of years ago. Can anyone identify this charging steamer dated 1907?
The Jalopy Journal
