History Auto racing 1894-1942

That looks like a very good article T. I'll get some sleep and read it tomorrow. Thanks.

I went searching for the article of the Wisconsin i mentioned and found it was a 1575lb 6cyl. Model PT engine { 5 3/4" x 7" } from a Lombard Model N log hauler. I found this on a machinists forum last year when i was searching for some Mercer and T-head engine info. {small world hah.}
The owner was seeking some machining tech. for a helical gear so there wasn't anything spoken about the motor itself but he did mention the bronze crankcase weighed 500lb.

Speak to you later.

 

Photo of Bert Dingley in a Pope-Toledo from the 1905 Vanderbilt Cup-American Elimination Trials.

 

side note: at this time Pope Toledo's came equipped with 3 speed transmissions. For some reason, the race cars for the Vanderbuilt cup were all set up with 2 speed transmissions. needless to say, performance was somewhat unimpressive.

 

Kurtis...... Now it is coming back to me, yes I am sure you are right. I helped a person up in Maine that had just an engine that he wanted to work on that came out of a Lombard. They are incredible tracked vehicles that were also made in Maine.

 

From my recent visit to Dearborn. Slim

 

Lee..... It would depend on what the client really wanted. I guess if there not any drawings of some of the components you would have to try to think like the original builder might have and create the pieces that would fit in between the ones that you do know what they looked like.

Sure you could try to use off the shelf things to try to keep the cost down. Something like that is a big under taking and I would want to study what drawings were available before I went further. A lot would also depend on how it was to be used also. Modern bearings do not work in old engines unless you can filter the oil because contaminates wear off the thin bearing layers real fast. And to have filtered oil you would need to pump it thru a filter. Sometimes to accommodate modern pieces it can cost more in the long run. A splash oil system might work just fine.

It would take a little study first to figure out which way to go but it is doable but not very easy task. The biggest obstacle is patterns and finding foundries that can and are willing to try it.

 

Kurtis.... More information on Loco bronze cases. This is from 1911 Locomobile book. They called their car " The Best Built Car In America " it was no idle boast, it was true. Riker was their brilliant engineer and was extremely particular to only use the best.

 

Two photos of the Type I Locomobile Engine as in Robinson's Fairmount Park race winner we looked at earlier. The other photo I believe is the 1905 Vanderbilt car possibly at the start.

 

Thank you George & Manny!

 

Walter Christie used bronze castings for many of his lower engine casings as well.
Unfortunately none are thought to have survived.

 

Rolls In a 110 HP Mors. The photo is dated November 24, 1903.

 

I guess the selective sliding 3 speed box would've been even more useless as it was only good for touring comfortably at a cetain speed, couple that with the fact that first gear selection under racing conditions was non existent it's understandable why the 2 speed was chosen.
For all of their shortcomings these were great looking cars nevertheless.

Here's an article of the 911 models from Car Collector Magazine-June '09. Not racing related, just a beautiful car.
www.carcollector.com/index.php/columns/43-features/441-pope-hartford-june-09.html

 

Yep. The owner, who also resides in Maine, provided a photo of what the engine once belonged to. It looked like a mid 20s truck on massive amounts of steroids. The engine itself is also a massive lump. POWER is the word that best describes both images.

Thanks for the Locomobile info & pics.

Have you ever heard of a Piggins Brothers engine? I like this one.

www.piggin.org/engine/13Engine.htm

 

Probably a little too high at 110hp. There are many different horsepower numbers bandied about in regards to this car. A sensible and suitable answer would be 70 to 80hp when one figures in the MPH and elapsed time over a kilometer. As a comparison, the 1904 Richard Brassier 9.9 liter developed 80hp.

Photo below is a Toledo steamer {later becoming Pope-Toledo} and a 1901 Mors. Coincidental i think that these two machines would be spoken of on the same page.

 

From a VSCDA event

 

That was GREAT! Did the car feel at home on the dirt road? Nice rebuild on the engine, it looks perfect.

 

They are wonderful on a dirt road or any road, they are all that you have ever read about them. Come on up, I'll give you a ride in it.

This one is just in for magneto, carburetor work and some other maintenance. The engine that I showed the bottom end for is for one of the other ones that are here.

 

Ok, I thought this was as total rebuild with a "Never Worked On" look, horse piss carb and all. Yes, save a rinding mechanic seat for me some time this summer.

 

Here is a Mercer racer a friend of mine has in his shop for transmision repairs. He floggs it regularly.....as a good racer should.
HG

 

This photo of the GJG race car that I did a post on a while back has shown up.

This is probably taken somewhere fairly close to the NYC area. Can anyone add anything to it? Was it taken at the White Plains Fairgrounds where it has long been known to have raced at? Quote below and a link to my good friend Dan Strohl's post on Hemmings blog which is quite interesting.

George John Grossmam who built the cars was involved in racing: He offered his garage as the headquarters for the Isotta Fraschini team in the Briarcliff Race of 1908, and he is known to have built at least one race car himself, using a 60hp Wisconsin T-head engine and Brown and Lipe transmission on a Pirate roadster chassis. After G.J.G. advertised it as capable of at least 70 MPH, Paul G. Thebaud of White Plains bought it and entered it in the 10-mile non-stock free-for-all race against three Mercers, a Maxwell and a Fiat in the October 1912 automobile, motorcycle and bicycle races at the White Plains fairgrounds; we so far have found no record of how well Thebaud performed in that race.

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2010/04/08/was-the-privates-car-a-g-j-g/#more-22824

 

I saw that and thought of you and soon realized it was you, it looks like a perfect match. The Rome Historical Society have some G.J.G radiator drawings

 

Amazing to see a 'green godess' acting as a race car transporter,

my father spent many hours fighting fires with those

.

.

 

Model A's corner faster on two wheels.

 

Early endurance race track facilities photo I found elsewhere on HAMB.

 

A couple of Fronty Fords. Where, when?

First pic is Louis Schneider, 2nd pic looks to be from the same track.
Arthur Chevrolet in the hat and tie. Anyone know who the driver is?

 

WOW! I've never seen another Mercer with wire wheels. Your friends is a '12 correct? this is interesting as it has headlights and rearview mirror. Definitely a street car.

 

That Mercer is a 1912 and was just got brought over from England for work. The owner has it vintage raced quite a bit in England. His brother runs this shop for him. There are maybe five or more Mercers around that have wire wheels and most of the late T-Head race cars had them.

Wires wheels became available in US during the T-Head Mercers production run. These photos are from the Budd Wheel Co. Which I think is still manufacturing truck wheels.

 

Very cool pictures of the Budd Wheel Co, T-Head. I believe you're familiar with this car.

 

Yes, I am the owner is an acquaintance of mine and I talked with him and looked at the car at Amelia Island a couple of weeks ago. He is a great guy, we both belong to an early touring group.