COE Autocar Build Thread

pretty neat idea... that should really cut down the noise...

 

That should work out well when you get it on the road. Cut down noise, HEAT and seal off all those nooks and crannies that always show up later.

 

Corona virus be damned!

 

Finished up the floor yesterday, shot bedliner on it for a ritzy, formal look. Sharp eyes will notice that there is one section of pink showing yet, but it will have to wait until I get the cab remounted so I can access it. Trying to flip this monster in the garage isn't going to happen.

 

looks great, Steve! I was considering the same for mine, but I'm just not convinced yet.. I wonder about heat versus bedliner....

 

Being urethane, it won't take a lot of heat. (180-200F max) I do plan to put radiant heat barriers where the exhaust manifolds are closest to the cab floor, similar to what modern vehicles have between the exhaust system and underbody.

 

S.S. cookie trays make great donors for heat shields....just don't let the wife catch you in her kitchen

 

My wife has a couple real nice cookie sheets, double thickness with an air layer in between, paid big bucks for them, she can still manage to burn the cookies. Maybe I could put them to better use!

My dad had a supply of heat shield material years ago, it appeared to be 2 layers of very thin sheet metal with a layer of what I ***ume was asbestos in between. I can't find anything like it online, but I think it is what I need. (maybe not the asbestos part)

 

Today I pulled the engine out for rebuild. I didn't have any normal way of lifting the 1600 lb engine safely, so this is the way I did it.


Lots of 4x4s, an I-beam and a couple hydraulic jacks. Took most of the afternoon and evening, but neither I nor anything else got broken from a run-away engine. BTW, for a little perspective, the I-beam is 78" above the concrete.
I have an engine stand that is equally robust that it will get bolted to tomorrow.

 

Well that sure looks like a heavy lift exercise.

 

3X the weight of a small block Chevy, didn't want to bounce it off my toe!

 

I recall doing the same move with a 6BT ***mins.

 

Now comes one of the interesting parts of this build. I have an Allison 2400 trans/TC that was paired to a 5.9 ***mins and the flex plate and torque convertor that mated the Detroit to an Allison 643. The Detroit has an SAE #2 flywheel housing and the ***mins had a #3. The only dimension that is the same on the two installations is the diameter of the centering snout on the convertors. I will have to do a bunch of very accurate measuring and redrilling of holes if I'm ever going to fit these pieces together.
Note: Allison never mated a 1000/2400 to a 6v53 Detroit, so it isn't a simple matter of throwing money at the correct parts, they never existed.

 

It will work. I hate the measuring idea but I am sure it will work.

 

your diesel mating rules sound a lot like the rules for re-opening Kansas City...all seem confusing to me

 

It's really simple KS, the TC has to fit between the flexplate and the transmission when the flywheel housing mates up to the TC housing with the sae2 to sae3 adapter ring pinched in between. And I have one little 2X2" window to peek through to see if everything lines up!
I have factory drawings from Allison, but one critical dimension is missing so they aren't much help. I will probably end up drawing what I have on the drafting board to figure out exactly what I need for adapters.
One question that I have about TCs is this: How much end play should I allow. It has oil pump drive flats on the output like most GM TCs, do I shove it in until it bottoms out, then pull it back out 1/4"? 1/8"?
I decided not to mount the Detroit on the engine stand, instead I built a dolly so I have access to the flywheel housing and can easily move it around the shop.
Tomorrow, I have to tear down the engine in our hot rod Triumph Spitfire. Hoping it has a leaky head gasket, not a cracked head. (bubbles in the radiator)

BTW I rather like being "closed" up here in Wisconsin, getting lots of stuff done! Wife is impressed!

 

I've mentioned that I plan to use a Detroit diesel in my Autocar, but I don't think I ever told the story of acquiring this engine.
I originally planned to use a 5.9 ***mins and bought one, but later got the bug to have a Detroit. I found a firetruck on Ebay with the engine I wanted in a small town in Kentucky. I bought it, fabbed up a hitch to fit the truck's rear bumper, hooked up a tow dolly behind my car and drove the 500+ miles to get my new truck. After mounting the hitch to the truck, I hooked up the dolly, loaded my car on the dolly and started for home. This truck just hummed along, I couldn't have been happier. (for the first 70 miles)
Then all hell broke loose, first a little rattle, then a huge cloud of oil smoke behind us! I pulled over to check things out, engine idled smoothly, but oil dripping out of tailpipe. I had brought a couple gallons of oil with me so I decided that first and foremost, getting it off the interstate was important. I limped it to the next exit, nearly out of oil and called around and found a person that would let me park it at his garage for a month, trouble was he was 30 miles away. I dumped in my 2 gallons of oil and set out for his garage. Made it 5 miles and the oil pressure needle was waivering near zero. pulled off on another exit, unloaded the car and drove to a truckstop for more oil, bought a couple more gallons, went back, loaded the car back on the dolly and pressed on. This time when the oil pressure started to drop I ignored it and just kept going, 20 miles later I found my free parking spot and the engine idled just as smooth and quiet as if nothing was wrong. (I knew I was loosing power)
Over the years I haven't bothered to tear the engine down until I was ready to rebuild it.
Every diesel mechanic I talked to said I had lost blower seals, so imagine my surprise when I pulled a head off today.


Definitely need a different head, at least one piston/sleeve combo and I haven't looked at the crank to see if there is oil starvation damage.
I still have the 5.9 ***mins as a back-up and enough in the truck fund to cover whatever I need to do.

 

Yikes!

 

Go back to the ***mins.

 

Bummer

 

Nothin' personal, but not if I can help it!
I haven't gotten a look at the crank yet, but I know I've got scored pistons, so $1500 or less for an inframe kit and a grand for a loaded head, (says it's new)plus there was only 33,000 miles on this Detroit, so all the other parts in the engine are almost new. If you've priced crate engines lately, $2500 isn't much to have in the engine.
Worked on other projects today, but spent the evening making an adapter plate to mount the block to my home made engine stand. Tomorrow I should get it on the stand and get the oil pan off, then we shall see!

 

Spoken like a true Detroit fan.

 

There never has been an engine more efficient at converting diesel fuel to smoke and noise

 

I can see my words hit home. They have a unique sound. Although I prefer the ***mins and its unique sound I simply can not disagree with you. I just had to say go back to the ***mins to see what response I would get.

 

All is good! I'm the kind of guy that will turn his back on the ***mins, not because I think they are bad, just because most others run them. I also try to avoid GM parts, because that's what everyone else chooses. (I've made a big exception with this engine)
I got the oilpan off of it tonight and looked under a rod cap, no damage other than a ding that is not from the valve incident. The ding is in the center of the journal where the insert is grooved, so it doesn't need to be fixed. (must have been dinged at the factory)

 

Steve, I think you need to find out how deep or thick the oil pump drive gear is in the trans so you know how much engagement you have available on the TC to pump gear. Then you will have a better idea as to how much you can pull it out for end play.

Also, if you want, send me the drawings you have and I can put them in autocad and possibly derive the missing dimension for you pretty quickly. I also have a cnc if you would want or need that in the future.

As for the adapter though, I would be a bit surprised if there isn't a #3 flywheel housing for the 6v53. But then you'd need a new smaller flywheel too. I am not too familiar with DD stuff.

Jason

 

You are right, there is a #3 housing available, but it becomes a rabbit hole with different flywheel and probably different starter. (and none of this stuff is cheap)
I'm leaving for the weekend in a few hours, but I'll get back to you about cad work.

 

Finally found the right parts for my engine today! An inframe kit for all 6 cylinders with main, thrust and rod bearings, a full gasket set plus a few other doohickies $1650 and a complete used cylinder head with all the cam followers, rockers, valves and injectors, for $250.
I'm sure there will be more expenses, but I'm OK with the parts price.

mcgyver, here is a copy of my drawing of the Allison transmission. If you can find the info, I need to know the distance from the torque converter to flex plate mounting surface to the front edge of the bell housing. (Even an educated scaling would be a help.

 

Steve, I think I sent you a PM or whatever it is called on here. If you can email me the full size files I think it will help. When I go to zoom in on these it gets fuzzy.

 

those were the files that were emailed to me, so I don't have larger ones.
I did get a quote for an adapter ring, good for a laugh!