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History Automotive Weirdness

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ned Ludd, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. lloyddooropen.jpg lloydside.jpg I submit my 1957 Lloyd Alexander sedan. Kinda similar to a 3/4ths size 53 chevy...sorta. These came with a full roller bearing, water cooled 4 cylinder, manual trans and front wheel drive. Borgwaard [subsidiary of GM in Germany] built them as an entry level compact.
     
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  2. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,307

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Borgward were never a GM subsidiary, but an independent manufacturer of Borgward, Goliath, and Lloyd cars. In fact they were in direct competition with GM's Opel. There is some controversy around the demise of Borgward, Carl Borgward's increasingly authoritarian eccentricity notwithstanding. The post-war revival of BMW, who had lost their Eisenach plant to East Germany, had a lot to do with it.
     
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  3. German coach builder Spohn's take on a '51 Chrysler. Check out their post ww2 production, and prepare for awefulness!

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1422600188.999880.jpg
     
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  4. .......and the Lloyd had a two cylinder engine, not a four banger
     
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  5. Proffa
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1

    Proffa

  6. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,307

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Yes, this is rather restrained, for Spohn.



    I can't hear "Spohn" without thinking of Rolf Harris painting ...
     
  7. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,307

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Something else entirely put me onto post-war French coachbuilders Pichon-Parat, who did all kinds of weird things on contemporary French chassis, as well as this Cadillac for Raymond Loewy:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The rear aspect is actually quite elegant.
     
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  8. ol'stinky
    Joined: Oct 3, 2010
    Posts: 382

    ol'stinky
    Member
    from New Jersey

    [​IMG]
    Found this in a junkyard years ago. Crosley tractor trailer.
     
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  9. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy

    so thats what happens when you combine all the GM divisions into one car ..
     
  10. First thing I noticed too!!!
     
  11. Speaking of odd.....check out the door handle locations on this Plymouth.... Oceanside yard17.JPG Oceanside yard18.JPG .
     
  12. unkamort
    Joined: Sep 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,014

    unkamort
    Member

    A few more of the Loewy Cad...and Mr snappy dresser his own self
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,172

    chrisp
    Member

    Pichon did build a few cars for Loewy, was it solely Loewy design or Pichon or a team effort?
     
  14. unkamort
    Joined: Sep 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,014

    unkamort
    Member

    I can't be quoted... But I remember reading some where that Lowey hated the tail fins, thus the re-do
     
  15. French coachbuilders, a Cadillac and Raymond Loewy... Yet they chose to finish this project with what appear to be Studebaker hubcaps. :confused: Now that's weird! o_O
     
  16. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 10,099

    50Fraud
    Member Emeritus

    Loewy led some very nice design projects for his clients, but everything he did for his own use seems awful.
    Don't forget that Loewy's group also did the Studebaker on which those hubcaps first appeared.
     
  17. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,720

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    That is because the work he sold clients was done by someone else, while his own cars are his own designs.

    He commissioned several one offs for his own use, all of them more or less awful.
     
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  18. I know of Loewy's association with Studebaker. Those hubcaps may be of his design and he may have been fond of them, and rightfully so. But they seem so ordinary looking on a coach-built job like this.

    But then again, they are the polar opposite of a set of chrome wire knock-off wheels. :p
     
  19. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    Here's a ride with Bucky! Ford V8 powered FWD. Amelia Earhart takes a seat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
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  20. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    I'd like to hear how you guys would compare Raymond Lowey and Harley Earl.

    Are both of these guys shrouded in the reputation of other designers?
     
  21. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    I first read your URL as Talesin Design instead of Tales In Design.
    I was seriously wondering for a minute what hotrods had to do with Frank Loyd Wright. o_O
     
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  22. This car has some very uncomfortable lines.
    Like somebody giving it a wedgie!
     
  23. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,307

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Or, for that matter, with ancient Welsh literature. Early Deep Purple is perhaps less tenuous.

    I wonder about the Dymaxions' rear-wheel steering. The video shows hands-off-the-wheel highway stability, but I can't see how there can be any self-correcting action with this arrangement. What technical drawings I've seen seem to show zero caster, zero trail.
     
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  24. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    Hmmm, Ned, lessee here. Song titles; Ma Woman from To-kay-o!
    and when driving the 'Special': Highway Star!

    One Dymaxion was in an impromptu street race, I believe the steering 'system' allowed rear-sway, considering the mass-center and possible rear wheel steering dynamics. A driver was killed, tis all I remember.
    Studied a bit at Bucky's office shortly after he died, in '83.
     
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  25. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    Ever drive a forklift fast? Steers much better in reverse. :cool:
    I can't imagine the dymaxion car being stable at speed except in reverse.
     
  26. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    Either the Shopping cart wheel-flutter phenomena, or centripital force overcomes the caster's return-to-center force?
     
  27. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 10,099

    50Fraud
    Member Emeritus

    I think it's a little like comparing Neil Emory with Sam Barris. Earl (and Barris) were both working within a style familiar to their primary consumers, while Loewy (like Emory) was doing stuff that was altogether unlike the current fashion. I'm talking about Loewy's commercial work for Studebaker, not his personal rides.

    Certainly both Earl and Loewy, as well as Dutch Darrin, were reliant on their staff for both concept and execution. I imagine that each of those guys was capable of hands-on design when they started out, but worked through staff by the time their work was famous.
     
  28. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,720

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Any design work Earl did was before he joined General Motors. After that he had a staff to do the work, and the turnover was something fierce. Practically anybody could get a job with GM styling provided they showed a few drawings with original ideas. But as soon as you ran out of ideas, you were replaced.

    Loewy was more of a salesman and promoter. Once again the actual design work was done by someone else.

    There is a story about him showing a clay model to a client. Loewy proceeded to put the finishing touches to the design by shaving off minute amounts of clay . The company president turned to his production chief and asked if he thought the changes were an improvement. The production man replied that it was neither here nor there, they couldn't stamp body panels to such fine tolerances anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  29. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    ...Yes, lack of caster is a wobble-maker for sure.
    And a Dymaxion 3-wheel car has one less rear wheel's traction helping to keep the rear wheels planted behind the front ones (or planted in a curve) so it's a double whammy.

    I imagine at speed it would be twitchy & want to swap ends too easy. Then there's the unfortunate tendency to roll over. :oops: I like cars and bikes, but trikes of any sort are not my bag.

    The Dymaxion seems, to me, the result of an engineer who focused on one desirable property of a system
    (low aerodynamic drag) until the whole system became fundamentally unstable, because the rest of it was not well developed.
     
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  30. Gene Boul
    Joined: Feb 9, 2006
    Posts: 805

    Gene Boul

    Looks like the two and only Dolly!
     

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