AV8 Thoughts, notes and information I just wanted to get some of this stuff down for people looking. Ive had a couple people email me to ask me about what Im doing......by no means does this mean I know what I"m doing!!! Please go over this stuff with a fine-toothed comb and see if I have errors. These are just my observations and notes from what Im doing. I'm pretty dag gone green at this! I just see it come up a lot and more information is good! Besides, I'm still not sure which direction I'm going to go... Paul, Bruce, Kilroy, Kustom, Jon and ALL you others, add or subtract from this Facts of my build: *Early 28 Frame ( tall U, or yoke, for the engine to mount directly on- cut off) *59AB engine *32 radiator by walker *fan in the middle (or on generator as youll see) *4-5 recessed firewall *engine mounts made from 2X3 tubing (as per Bishop/Tardell book) ---Notes on running a recessed firewall I know, I think theyre ugly too! VERY ugly! Nevertheless, this is what my car came with. I was going to look for a stock firewall, but not after today. Real estate under the hood of an AV8 is like buying a 20-acre gr***y flat lot in Hawaii. Benefits -you can run the fan in the middle -Im quite certain you can run an 8BA style engine in this setup (the goal I was shooting for) but I havent actually sat it in there . -plenty of room for the crank pulley to clear the cross member and to be able to put a belt on -radiator can set on the cross member where the holes are and still clear the fan -plenty of room to get the bottom two hoses on -the fan can be put on the generator but if the radiator is 3-4 shorter than stock, the blades will have to be trimmed off some to clear the hoses. Does this cause a cooling issue? Drawbacks/Unanswered questions -shifting lever clearance with using a 32 style dash (have to make custom) -breather/oil filler will not clear the top of the recessed firewall (have to make something -puts the 39-style ****** back pretty close to the center cross member (move back or replace all-together) -loses some of that traditional look (most important, however) Notes -My engine mounts are 6 back from the center of the radiator holes to the front edge of the engine mount (that would be 6 ½ center to center, if you are using 2x3 tubing for mounts) -My engine is at a 5 degree angle: measured from the top of the stock intake -I have about ½-1 of clearance between my fan blade and the radiator (at its closest point), however, a couple of my blades are bent slightly forward -If I move my engine forward, Ill have to run the fan on the generator (hose clearance, t******* blades, cooling problems???) -Depending on how far forward, putting the belt on problems and having to move the radiator out several inches (changes the looks???) -For all practical purposes, the 8BA style fan doesnt protrude out any farther than the 59AB style with a fan in the middle. Yes, the pulleys for the water pumps are out farther but that doesnt seem to matter. The ultimate pc. to measure is the outermost pulley on the crank and the outer most edge of the fan. They, by my measurements, are the same. I dont know about the rest of you, but Id like to be able to switch engines to whatever is available when I need one. Here are some pics with some measurements and/or highlighted areas .
i beleive that the water pumps on the newer "grungy" motor are mercury's...the area where they would contact the motor mount is 2 inches different then the 59AB and the 8RT's... as for the fan..i had to trim 3/8 off each of my fan blades to clear my lower radiator hoses on my 8RT motor...but mine is in a 32 frame and setting pretty low...looks like you'll be good there another thought...maybe you should get the rear mount in the frame first..once you figure front/back location...seeing as its easy to raise and lower the front mounts... this way you can bolt the back of the motor in and put a jack under the block and level the block to the frame rails...inorder to not have a anlged motor the next problem with switching motors arizes with the intakes..apparently on the 8BA-RT etc. the intake sets the carb at an angle in relation to the top of the block...and on the 59AB's that i have it sits level...so you will need some sort of block to level the carb...or mill the intake flat thats all i can think of to add right now good luck.... zach oh yeah...dont drive it too much before its road worthy...it makes you pretty unambitious to work on it when you can go play in the dirt AS-IS
Yes, they are merc pumps......I'll check my other blocks.... Before anything is final, I'm gonna establish my ****** mount.... I'm VERY bad about getting something to being functional and then using it as is....ask my wife! I think that is where the unfinished hotrod came from that we see today....the ole' boy worked hard, got it drivable and then quit! "Well, it's drivable....."
Hey Youngin, You're doing a great job on your mock up and getting some good info. I have a few comments that may/may not help.......just items to think about. First, as you know you have a pretty nice crank hiding in the depths of that grundgy Merc!! Decisions, decisions, decisions!! As you may remember I'm running a grundgy merc in mine, so keep that in mind while I run off at the mouth. The distance on mine from the centerline of the rad mtg to the centerline of the motor mtg hole is 6 7/8". You mention you have 6" from centerline of rad mtg to front of your motor mounting and 6 1/2" to the motor mtg hole. (with 3" tubing it would be 7 1/2" if the 6" is correct) I think I told you the other day that the front pulley is centered over the rear flange of the crossmember and the face of the pulley is 2 1/8" from the front U-bolts. I set up my engine very near level to the frame so I could get the fan as close as possible to the rad. With no shroud and hood this is critical for the fan to help cool at idle! I read somewhere that Mike ended up with 1/4 between the fan and rad and got better cooling at idle......I believe it's in the B/T book or perhaps one of the many great mag articles Mike has written that I have cut out and filed away. I am using the stock Merc fan ***embly and it clears the rad by 1/2" The rad is mounted 3/4" forward of the stock location. All of this does make me wonder if indeed you can drop the Merc in what you have mocked up for the 59A. Obviously you will have the answer to that in short order. It's great that you have them both handy for your mock up! Another thing that you may remember is that I moved the crossmember 3" forward so I didn't have to cut the firewall and that worked well for me. That made the wheelbase 106", same as a deuce. Using your recessed firewall makes sense in your situation since it's already there and you never know when you might want to upgrade to an OHV like they did back then!! I wouldn't think you would have to move or remove the stock center crossmember, I think you said you are going to fab a K member which should be ok. I have an old book on building AV8s using a 33 or later X member instead of a K member which you might think about. You have to modify it so it fits up to the A frame similar to modifying a deuce K member. Some advantages are that you can use the pedal ***embly and use the later style ****** mtg and it stiffens up the frame even more than a good K member..........Just food for thought.....Perhaps your grandpa would let you borrow his. You shouldn't have a shifter lever problem with the recessed firewall. I did have to do some tweaking on mine to clear the dash and steering wheel but that is a result of the 4" channel. Hope this helps,
A comment on the engine "level" .Most of the aftermarket intakes have no level build in, but most stock ones have.To level the engine(5° seems a lot to me), i use the machined surface where the intake will be mounted to. You can measure while the intake is on the engine. The target is to have the fuel bowl of the carb at 0° at ride height. A rake of 5° on your ch***is will make it look like an 80s prostreet rod. Set up your suspension , build your rear trans mount and then the front engine mounts. Jus my 2 c. Michael
I had posted this before and if you had seen this then sorry for the redundancy. The X from a subframed car was used, would be cool to try a complete X rather than to hammer out the missing pieces, look better. I drilled and bolted through the original holes with it mocked up square and level, bare block and trans case in place. The X had to be sliced, heated and pinched to get clamped snug. Once bolted completely, it was taken back apart, Bolts put back tight with gr 8 nuts, welded them in and then the frame boxed. X was left in as much as could be while doing this, had to be taken out for some of the bead obviously. Put never seez on all of them, they can always be removed agian if it was ever needed. In one case, the park brake cable needed a fastenation point and it worked out there. http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=59365&img=Dsc00892.jpg http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=60148&img=Dsc01023.jpg http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=60150&img=776Dsc00962.jpg
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